Mandatory replacement of hoses - Saratoga II TC

I have 1999 Saratoga II TC and have been told by my AMO that all the hoses have a 20 Year Manufactures Life Limit and there 21 hoses to be replaced now at parts cost $7,489.00! Apparently they are teflon coated and cannot be made up locally. I have 1400 hours on the plane which has always been hangared and the hoses are in perfectly good condition. Am I bene sold a story here? Does anyone have experience of this situation?

Comments

  • I would think that if you aren’t flying your plane for hire, they wouldn’t be mandatory to replace unless there was an AD on them. I’m not an expert, but I don’t know why it would be any different than the TBO on your engine.

    Jim M.
    PA-28R-200
    Based at BUU
    ATC Chicago TRACON

  • My guess is, like Jim above, that under Part 91 they have no life limit. Stand by while I send this to our A&P, Erich Rempert.

    Scott Sherer
    Wright Brothers Master Pilot, FAA Commercial Pilot
    Aviation Director, Piper Owner Society Forum Moderator and Pipers Author.

    Need help? Let me know!

  • If I am wrong I will apologize, but right now I smell snake oil. I am in the Part 91 no life limited parts or mandatory replacement required other than an AD camp.

  • That's quite a price tag for hoses. Fortunately I can get hoses made up here locally in the Phoenix area. When is your engine due an overhaul? Most people replace the hoses when the engine is off for overhaul. Much easier! Fuel and hydraulic hoses do require an A&P sign off. Unless you have a leak or something, I'd plan on hose replacement at engine overhaul.
    Austin

  • Here's a response from our A&P Erich Rempert on the hose issue:

    If they are not listed on the type Certificate as life limited, there is nothing on the type Certificate that makes the manufacturer's maintenance manual (or any other manual) compulsory (chapter 5 items specifically), and there is no AD calling for replacement, then they are "on condition" per Pt. 43 Appendix D as long as operating under Pt. 91.

    I'd get a second opinion from a different local IA on the subject, but I'm confident that's what you'll find.

    Where is the data the IA is citing that causes them to believe they are "life limited"? If not part of an AD or somehow traceable back to the TC, the limit is not compulsory.

    -Erich Rempert, IA Consultant

    Scott Sherer
    Wright Brothers Master Pilot, FAA Commercial Pilot
    Aviation Director, Piper Owner Society Forum Moderator and Pipers Author.

    Need help? Let me know!

  • Thanks to all for your responses. FYI my plane is based in South Africa but the regulations are FAA based. My AMO has just sent a section out of the Aircraft Maintenance Manual and a list of part numbers. I have pushed back asking for a layman's description of each component and pointing out that the manual refers to FLUID carrying hoses only. See attached.
    Where can I find the type certificate?

  • Scott Sherer
    Wright Brothers Master Pilot, FAA Commercial Pilot
    Aviation Director, Piper Owner Society Forum Moderator and Pipers Author.

    Need help? Let me know!

  • According to Stratoflex, "recommended" hose life for 111 series and 130 series hose is 8 years. 124 series (teflon) has no shelf life, replace on condition.

  • edited August 2019

    Here is the response directly from Piper. Not very articulate but the message seems to give me no choice :-(

    Good morning Tom,

            I’m sorry but all fluid hoes may exceed twenty (20) year total time in service no matter the condition. The hoses may look in good condition but may be damaged internally or dried out witch could cause a failure during operations. That is why all fluid hoses have to be changed twenty years.
    

    Description: Piper Aircraft, Inc.

    Andrew Corso

    Technical Support Airframe/Powerplant
    Andrew.Corso@piper.com | www.piper.com
    P: 1.772.299.2637 | F: 1.772.978.6573
    Piper Aircraft, Inc., 2926 Piper Drive, Vero Beach, FL 32960

  • Piper also says that they consider their service bulletins to be mandatory, but that’s not the case from a legal standpoint.

    Jim M.
    PA-28R-200
    Based at BUU
    ATC Chicago TRACON

  • Tom, your attachment shows only the Lycoming engine hoses. Does the price tag also include all the Piper airframe hoses which are not listed or mentioned?

  • Well, I can understand wanting to get rid of a "dried out witch", but that does not mean good looking hoses need to be changed. Trying to envision the wet side dried out with fluid constantly awash.

  • Price tag is only for the Lycoming hoses! I am busy shopping around for alternative suppliers.

  • Tom, I have sent that list to my hose shop for a quote. Will advise!

  • This set of hoses factory new with export FAA 8130-3 would sell for $3392.00 through my company. All hoses are 124 (teflon) series.

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