Rosen Replacement Visor Piper Checklist Placard
Hi All,
Quick kinda generic Piper question, asking for a “friend”….
A “friend” has a Piper Seneca with STC’d Rosen Visors, this friend likes them a lot and they were in the airplane when he bought it.
Question is, in looking at the Seneca Pilots Information Manual, Limitations Section II, listed under “Placards” is the standard Piper “Takeoff and Landing Checklists” we’ve all seen and surely used before. There is a note that states that this Checklist came out of the box from Piper with it stuck to the Sun Visor. We’ve all seen them there before, if not on the Seneca, then on various Piper Models. Of course some airplanes have them glued to the Forward Instrument Panel, some, like I say, are on the Visor.
My question is, err… my friend’s question is “Are we legally required to have it posted on the Sun Visor”?
It IS listed in the FAA Approved “Manual”, although I could not find it listed in the FAA Type Certificate Data Sheet as a required item, only Aircraft Limitations seem to be listed. Also is not listed in the Illustrated Parts Catalog (IPC).
In contacting Rosen if this “Sticker” may have been included in the STC, their Customer Service said No, but customers have gone to their local Print Shop and had one made up and applied it to the new Visor.
So, I thought I would confer with the Wizards here and see if my “friend” should run out and do that tomorrow before he goes flying again??
Thoughts??
Thanks in advance!
George
N8434M KLPR
Comments
While not looking to address the legality side...
I, errr.... I mean, my friend is a bit torn about whether to have anything on the visor which blocks even the slightest bit of view. Even if it is small-ish text.
Besides, even if the checklist was originally on my, errr... I mean, my friend's visor when it was new, at some point the plane's history the checklist sorta, kinda, mighta, disappeared during one of the visor replacements and every IA signed-off without concern or notation.
Just thinking out loud for my friend. 😊
Legally, in the manuals only an AIRWORTHINESS LIMITATIONS section is FAA approved. If you don't have one, and most Pipers don't, you don't have to put the placards on the visor unless in the TCDS. That said, if you want to you could get them printed on clear sticker paper and apply that to the visor. Another option is find a service that prints dry rub transfers and apply them that way.
FWIW, my '79 Arrow IV has the power table printed on the pilot visor and landing/TO checklists on the panel.
Tom Jackson
PA28RT-201, N3022U
Tappahannock, VA (KXSA)
A&P/IA, Private Pilot, IR/A
A collection of Federal Regulations mandate that placards related to the safe operation of the aircraft be "conspicuous and in clear view" near the item to which they refer, and be included in the POH and other documentation. For example, a baggage weight limitation cannot be placed near the handle of an exit door, and a critical airspeed limitation cannot be placed in the baggage compartment.
The checklist supplied by the manufacturer and included in the POH must also be in a conspicuous location and in clear view of the pilot. If you have another location "conspicuous and in clear view" of the pilot to place the checklist, it would seem meet the intent of the regulation. However, it must be a placard affixed to the aircraft, not a checklist card that can get lost.
I think with the length of that checklist, it would be hard to locate anywhere else?
Regards,
Mike
Mike, HG, Etal;
Interesting conversation for sure. Many Piper visors also had eng performance setting charts too. Mike has valid point that i would tend to agree with , If its in the "approved POH" and there is a note indication on placement in cockpit, then that seems to weigh on its required to be somewhere conspicuous, as on the visor. The Data sheets certainly have "some" but those are pretty generic to basic "as delivered designed and manufactured" items.
To be realistic, rarely in my career have i ever gone into a POH to see if there are any "unique" airplane specific placards are required to be displayed. I would be surprised but impressed if any shops or mechanics practiced this. My advantage is the few years i have been working on GA aircraft,
It would be interesting if any one that has just installed ( or has) Rosen's, to look at the install instructions and let us know if there is any reference, specific to Piper's , on replication of the now " gone" OEM placards.
Carl
50yrs A/P IA DAL A/C inspector. 172N Rotax IRMT 912/914
Hi All,
Thank You so much for all the quick reply’s!
Tom, Mike and Carl, to your good points…
In review of the TCDS, FAR 23 & 91, just as you guys
mentioned, all required Placards must be properly
posted and in clear sight.
I did ask Rosen about the status of this Piper
Placard Checklist and attached is their Customer
Service reply. If you can’t open the attachment, they
said that they do not supply the Placard(s) in their
Instructions or STC. They did suggest a local
manufacture fix.
So, I’ll run out and get the clear Cling Film Sticker with
the Checklists printed on them and stick them on the
Rosen Visor. It’ll look just like the Piper Visors
with the Clear Vision Checklists & Power Setting
Tables Mr Piper had originally put on.
I’ll post a picture & Logbook Entry once I run it by the
AI I work with.
Thanks Again All!
George
N8434M KLPR
HG, yeah that sounds like the best and safest recourse. I'm surprised they don't make mention of that in their install instructions. But at least they are aware of it and they do pass that information on if people ask about it. Thanks for the feedback. Carl
50yrs A/P IA DAL A/C inspector. 172N Rotax IRMT 912/914