Aft Wing Spar Skin Deformed

nickrahal@gmail.com

I have a 1981 PA32R-301T SP (4,200 TT). During the first annual inspection since purchased, it was discovered that the right bottom wing spar skin at the bolt cluster was deformed (see pictures). The cracks previously had been stopped drilled. The wings and fuselage, from all the inspection accesses, seems to be free of corrosion or damage. There are no other signs of damage on the entire aircraft. I would appreciate input from anyone who has knowledge of this condition. Thanks Nick

Scott Sherer

Stand by while I send this to our A&P, Erich Rempert.

Scott Sherer

This is the response from our A&P, Erich.

Nick,
That's not too sweet.
There isn't an easy or inexpensive way to fix that, as the damage is in the spar carry through area of the fuselage.
I'd recommend contacting Piper with photos, having a repair engineered, and then carried out; which I'm going to guess will not be cheap. Figure around $2,000 for engineering, and $6-8,000 for the repair (as a guess).
I would also limit further flying to what is necessary to get it to a good repair facility, and I wouldn't put my family in it, or sign off an inspection with it like that. But I would sign off a ferry permit-
I'm sure there's no record of this "repair" on paper right?
And before the "Pre-buy guys" start saying I told you so, I'll say this is not really something that would be scrutinized unless the buyer requested it, BUT at every annual those bolts should get looked at... So I'd be looking at the last IA for an explanation.

Just the view from my hangar~
~Erich Rempert, A&P Consultant

nickrahal@gmail.com

Thanks for the prompt response. The mechanic preforming the inspection is looking through the logs to see if this was previously addressed; but as you said, I doubt that it was documented. From the limited views from inside the fuselage and the wing inspection accesses, the spar seems to be in good shape like the rest of the plane. One theory is that the bolt where either over torqued or tightened in the wrong pattern. It seems odd to me that piper would design the skin of the fuselage to sandwich between the spar carry through and the bolts holding it all together. Nevertheless, Piper has been contacted and we are awaiting a response. Thanks again! Nick

Scott Sherer

OK, Nick. Let us know how it turns out. Good luck!

nickrahal@gmail.com

Update: not having much luck as to a course of action. The wing spar and caps look good from inside the carry through (see photos). No signs of cracks, damage or fatigue. It would be nice if the skin around the damaged area could be removed, the spar cap doubler inspected for damage and then the area re-skinned. I’m really trying to avoid removing the wing due to all the avionics wiring running through the spar and carry through!

Scott Sherer

These are excellent pics, thanks for posting. Has Piper returned your communique yet? If yes, what did they say?

nickrahal@gmail.com

They are not able to give much guidance. They haven’t seen this condition before.

Scott Sherer

Ok, I reread your original posting at the top of this thread and you didn't mention what your A&P/IA recommended. So what is he recommending?

nickrahal@gmail.com

That the wing be removed and inspected.

Scott Sherer

Ok, were it me, I would be contacting the IA that approved it. I think he could be held accountable in a civil action and while I would take no pleasure in having to pursue that, maybe they will do the work free since they didn't catch it. Also, who did the pre-purchase inspection? They make have some accountability, too. Think through this carefully, if you can't arrive at a gentlemen's agreement with that IA or prepurchase IA, maybe an attorney's letter might help.

nickrahal@gmail.com

The IA who is preforming the annual inspection and reviewing the logs has not determined categorically that the issue was not previously resolved. I’ve done quite a bit of research since my last post and discovered that the spar design of the Saratoga is different than those that are the subject of the proposed spar AD (see photos). In fact, the Saratoga’s spar design is very similar to that of the Seneca’s (much beefier). The proposed A.D. also offers a non-destructive inspection method that I’m inclined to have performed with the guidance of a structures Engineer. It entails removing the spar bolts and inspecting the holes and doing it and eddy current test. I hope this method couple with a visual inspection of the spar caps which are accessible from inside the spar carry through, will be sufficient to resolve the matter.

Scott Sherer

Ok Nick,
It sounds like you have a plan. I'll keep my fingers crossed for you. good luck and let us know how it turns out.

nickrahal@gmail.com

UPDATE: Turns out that this situation was addressed in 2004. An eddy current test was done and showed “ no discrepancies”.

Scott Sherer

Whew, that's gotta be a really big relief.