How to remove old glued down insulation under carpet

N5004W

Have tried a variety of stripping products- two different kinds citrus based stuff - some other solvents to see if that loosened things up and nothing seems to really work good. Any ideas

Was thinking about using coarse grit sandpaper to get most of the foam and then go back with the citrus stripper again and see if it will get more of it after it has been knocked down little bit

Help

griff390

Try acetone or MEK (Methyl Ethyl Keytone). I mixed them 75% MEK to 25% acetone, and it worked very well removing the old glue from my floors. Apply it, let it soak, then use a plastic scraper and elbow grease. Use a respirator and good ventilation.

If those don't work, you may try aviation paint stripper. Aviation paint stripper generally works slower than furniture type paint stripper. You may need to apply it, cover with plastic, and let it do it's work overnight. The directions on the can should be your guide. Try the acetone/MEK first.

N5004W

Thanks - I will try the MEK acetone mix - - this may be a really dumb question but did you do anything to scrape off the foam first to allow the mek to get to the adhesive? Won’t the foam act as a barrier to letting the chemicals act on the glue?

griff390

Not a dumb question at all. Try putting the MEK/acetone mix on the foam and let it soak. Chances are it will melt it and allow you to wipe it off. You can also try mechanical removal. I would start with the MEK/actn mix, let it soak, and scrub gently with a brass brush. Don't use a toothbrush, it will melt, and a wire brush may be a bit harsh. The key here is patience and letting the solvent do the work.

One final caution;
MEK/acetn mix can soften or even remove paint, so be careful around overlapped joints. If too much leaks through a joint and out the bottom, it could damage paint on the plane's belly.

Scott Sherer

And you can use a plastic paint scraper. Don't use a metal one Having just done my carpet a couple of months ago, i used Acetone and all of the old goop came right up. My lungs will never be the same, lol, but the floor shined when done. Good luck!

N5004W

Thanks Griff and Scott - ultimately it was a MEK- plastic scrapers and a brass brush that got the stuff off. Did not come off easy but we got there eventually by soaking rags and letting them sit on the foam and then scraping and peeling it off one area while another area was covered with rags.

MEK is nasty so made sure to wear respirator and nitrile gloves

Thanks again

Scott Sherer

You are now officially a member of the Piper Owner Society MEK-sniffing chapter

griff390

N5004W;

You're welcome and thank you for the follow-up! Glad you got it done.

As a founding member of the "Piper Owner Society MEK sniffers", I can recommend the following precautions to anyone when working with any volatile chemicals or paint inside the cockpit;

• Nitrile (not latex) gloves
• Eye protection
• A good respirator with canisters designed for volatile organic chemicals and/or paint.
• OR a positive pressure mask and respirator (better).
• If using a positive pressure system, make sure the air intake is as far away as possible from the area you're working.
• Set up a fan in the baggage door (a box fan works well) either exhausting or blowing in and keep the cabin door open to promote airflow through the cabin. This method exhausts fumes very effectively, but please still wear a respirator.

empannin

You might also try a hot air gun with adjustable temperature (but not with the solvent too) to soften the adhesive.

A safety note, Nitrile gloves are not suitable for MEK and it will absolutely permeate nitrile gloves in short order (< 3 min with light contact)

Also, blowing air in is safer vs exhausting as there is less risk of the fan motor setting off the vapors.

asikora1

wow I am planning to replace my carpet later this year. I am up for the task but you guys have scared me a little!

N5004W

Mine was prolly worse than most - I am pretty sure it was the original carpet from 1961

For what it is worth I am 100% glad we did it - we found an area of corrosion by the passenger side seat bracket that needs to be fixed that we never would have found others

When we put the replacement flooring in I think we are going to do what Scott suggested and attach it with Velcro so that both the flooring and foam can be pulled up to inspect and clean or dry out if needed

empannin

N5004W, passengers spilling drinks is an important reason for a removable carpet. It also makes it much easier to steam clean, etc outside of the plane.

N5004W

Do you have your carpets Velcroed in the same way Scott does or if not how do you have them attached if you don’t mind my asking

griff390

Eric is correct.

Eric, you're making me think back years, and it's making my brain hurt!

My gloves were nitrile and lasted about an hour, but they were not the "medical exam" style glove. These were thick, went halfway up my forearm, and were made for mixing automotive paint where lacquer thinner and MEK are common. It's possible that brand and thickness play a factor in longevity. Some "exam" gloves are a nitrile/vinyl blend, and MEK will permeate those very quickly. Don't even bother with latex gloves, MEK will deteriorate them in seconds.

After a little more research, it appears that gloves made of butyl or PVA are much better suited to MEK resistance than nitrile, so here's my (new) advice for anyone doing this project in the future: purchase butyl gloves. They won't give the dexterity that a thin glove will, and they're a little more expensive, but mitigate the long term health risk of exposure to the chemicals. We're all worth it.

Don't know why I forgot to mention a heat gun...that's great advice! If anyone goes the heat gun route, use phenolic scrapers instead of plastic. The heat will not be kind to plastic scrapers.

Also good advice regarding the fan. Always use a fan with a brushless motor. Most window/box fans are brushless. They're about $20 at any department or big box store.

Thanks for the additions Eric!

griff390

Andy;

Understand your concern. Like many other airplane projects, it's not a difficult job, but it involves tedious and time consuming manual work.

Read my last post. If you decide to tackle it yourself, buy yourself some butyl gloves, a good brushless fan, a respirator or positive pressure mask and eye protection. Most people wear eye and hand protection nowadays anyway, so the only thing you're really adding is the butyl gloves and a respirator. A fan is mandatory for this project, but it can be used in dozens of other places when you're done (or bring one from home).

Attaching the carpet back down with Velcro is a great method. It gives you the ease of removal when necessary (like during annuals), and holds firm the rest of the time.

In the long run you'll be happy with the results, and like N5004W mentioned, you might find corrosion or other problem lurking beneath your carpets that deserves attention. Damp carpet alerted me that the windows in my plane were leaking. Resealing the windows prevented water from reaching and rusting the wing attachment plates. If not caught when it was, that could have been a very expensive repair. After 12 years, the carpet still looks good and smells new.

By the way, I found 47 cents under my old carpet, so it was totally worth it.

Remember, if you are uncomfortable with the project, you always have the option of paying someone to do it for you.

kentshaw

If you are referring to the pink foam underneath the carpet of the front seats, use the plastic scrapers that Scott mentioned and 3M Adhesive Remover. I don;t use acetone anywhere near my plane after seeing some vinyl pieces disolve with that stuff.

empannin

N5004W, I think you were asking about my carpets. I have recently bought by Seneca III so they are still glued down. We did some light adhesive spray for the center channel carpet in the aft cabin post annual but it is on my list to velcro this down as it needs to be removed every annual for inspecting the control lines. From the age of the adhesive it has not been done in years and luckily there was no corrosion as the aft part of the center section is a prime spot for corrosion.

asikora1

Jim,

Thanks for the tips and encouragement. I am pretty handy with my hands and look forward to taking on a few of the projects I am allowed to tackle.

Andy