Automobile Gas for 82 Dakota

daviddillehaydaviddillehay
in General Discussion

Is it possible?


Dave Dillehay

N8442A

Comments

  • jacobsjajacobsja
    edited May 11

    If it was pure gasoline, I might think about it. IIRC, the Dakota will still need at least 100 octane.

    Am not so sure about the mystery fuel that comes out of a roadside pump though. Its all well and good for a car. Well, some cars. Older cars really don't like the new alcohol blend, but put up with it. And then there is a question of what each State is requiring in the fuel at different times of the year. I think it is easier to study advance nuclear physics than to try and keep current notes on all the MoGas permutations. 😵

    Even if there are STC's to mod for MoGas, that sure is a lot of extra work to lug jugs of the stuff. And then there is the cost of a 5 gallon jug. Last time I had to buy one, it cost ~$20. So to fill the Dakota, this is nearly a ~$300 - $350 investment, just to start saving some money?

  • roevadasroevadas

    I owned a PA28-235C for about 12 years, it has a STC for MoGas...I used it extensively when available. With 100LL the plugs would foul taxing to the departure end of the runway. It didn't happen with MoGas...

  • griff390griff390
    https://piperowner.org/talk/discussion/156947/automobile-gas-for-82-dakota

    Dave:

    A couple important points regarding automobile fuel. For starters, MoGas is different from automobile fuel. Most automotive fuel is blended with ethanol, while MoGas is not. In general, ethanol is not good for carbureted engines (big or small).

    Ethanol absorbs water, and at altitude or during winter ops, the water crystals can freeze and precipitate out of the fuel mix. Enough ice crystals can block a fuel filter, and starve the engine of fuel. Now you're logging glider time.

    Ethanol can damage or destroy parts of a fuel system especially if it sits for a while or if the fuel system contains parts that are not made for contact with ethanol (rubber parts are especially susceptible).

    Bottom line, stay away from fuel blended with ethanol fuel in your certificated airplane. MoGas is acceptable, but you'll need an STC.

    Roevadas and jacobsja have already done a good job covering the pros and cons, so I won't cover it again.

    Jim "Doc Griff" Griffin
    PA28 - 161
    Chicago area

  • daviddillehaydaviddillehay

    OK, What is MoGas and where is it available?


    Dave Dillehay N8442A

  • roevadasroevadas
    https://piperowner.org/talk/discussion/comment/1445577#Comment_1445577

    Without knowing where you are located, it is difficult to pinpoint locations...When I owned my 235C, I would use SkyVector flight planning and select Layers->FBOs->Mogas. It will show airports that sell MoGas and the last reported pricing. The list is dwindling since it is harder to get. There are documents that detail testing to verify non-ethanol gas which can be used from gas-stations selling ethanol free fuel, but I haven't used them and would be very skeptical on using it. But I have acquaintances that have, "buyer beware". Doc Griff describes the effects expertly.

  • griff390griff390
    https://piperowner.org/talk/discussion/comment/1445577#Comment_1445577

    Dave;

    Aviation gas (Avgas) differs from mogas significantly. Mogas (motor gasoline) is derived from a hydrocarbon base, whereas avgas is made from a paraffin base. Avgas is regulated and tested far more stringently than mogas.

    As Roevadas correctly pointed out, mogas is still out there, but getting harder to find. Last time I checked, there were only a dozen or so FBO's in the entire nation that still sold it.

    Before you fuel up with mogas, you need an STC for your plane.

    Jim "Doc Griff" Griffin
    PA28 - 161
    Chicago area

  • jacobsjajacobsja

    To the question of MoGas availability, I found a site which tracks airports that sell unleaded aviation fuel (http://www.flyunleaded.com/) along with reported octane rating. Use caution as this is a source which relies on PIREPs. And to highlight the use caution aspect, I know about one airport (not listed on the site) that sells unleaded aviation fuel, but will only sell 100UL to transients. Best to call ahead and verify even if the airport does appear on the site.

    I also appreciate the opportunity to get a deeper knowledge in this area as my first exposure goes back to when ethanol was a rarity and automotive pump gas was interchangeably used with MoGas. Am seeing that the only core difference in automotive and MoGas was that the fuel which came out of the automotive pump had to lack ethanol (along with a few other requirements) and have certification for use as aviation fuel. Except, chances are good that nearly zero pilots dug into the certification part. Now we have ethanol in almost all automotive fuel blends, and even the few pure gas (E0) blends are under EPA pressure to adopt ethanol.

  • jacobsjajacobsja

    Just had another thought, how about we circle back to the original question.


    What is the goal?

    The possible goals that come to mind are:

    - lower fuel costs.

    - avoid lead.

    - fill a gap of the home field not having any fuel.

    Is it one of the three, or something else? Parts of the conversation already cover some of the possibilities, but best path is to know the actual driver of the question and go from there.

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