Archer slips with full flaps etc.
Are there any restrictions regarding slipping an Archer or any PA28 with full flaps? If you are high for a landing, what is the best technique to "get it down" in a hurry?
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The best solution is not to come in high in the first place.
As suggested, avoiding the need is the best thing to do. The POH for my Archer refers to slips in only two areas: to aid in closing an open door and in emergency landings.
In the case of a really bad landing where a slip was used (aka, a crash landing), an FAA attorney might argue that you were only permitted to use it in an emergency situation (per the POH), not when a go-around was an option. But let's set that scenario aside . . .
If I feel the landing is easily saved without creating other issues, I'll do a full-flap slip. With that said, there are a lot of things to consider other than, "Hey. I'll just do a slip with this bad boy and all will be well."
First, is there a significant crosswind. Do you really want to dip that wing in the wrong direction? Should you even use full flaps based on wind direction and speed?
I never begin a slip during the base to final turn. To me, aerodynamically, you're simply adding another link to a potential accident chain. You should know you're too high well before initiating the turn to final. So, get established on final, go to full flaps and then initiate the slip.
Also, in a slip, you can't necessarily rely on your airspeed indicator because the pitot tube isn't moving parallel to the direction of flight. You'll have to compensate for the descent rate and will need a little extra airspeed (energy) to do that.
Great commentary!
Another technique to get down in a hurry is: power idle, airspeed in the white arc, deploy full flaps, then pitch the nose down and hold your airspeed at the top of the white flap arc. When lightly loaded, you'll nearly be standing on the rudder pedals while the view out of the windshield is all earth. It will bring you down in a big hurry without cross controlling the plane. Warning: you'll literally be diving toward the dirt, so if you have passengers, they may become highly unnerved.
Agree with the previous comments that the best method is to stay ahead of the plane and don't approach too high. If it gets too tight, the go-around is your friend.
Jim "Doc Griff" Griffin
PA28 - 161
Chicago area
Talk about thread mining: 14 year old resurrection.
Seeing as we are here though.
In the Cherokees and Archers, I was usually a bit high as there was plenty of commentary from buddies with more flight experience about losing an engine on final. Only did slips on final and avoided them in a turn over fear of entering a spin. Did not do slips in gusty conditions either. And avoided slips with inexperienced passengers.
There was one PA-28 which cured me of a need to slip: the Arrow. Drop the gear and it sinks!
Agree on all counts. The thread is old, but the problems we pilots face are the same as they were 14 yrs ago, and so are most of the solutions.
Also agree that coming in a little high doesn't bother me. If you lose an engine, you better your odds of making the runway. Dumping altitude is easy, trying to climb with a dead engine is a little more challenging. 😅
Jim "Doc Griff" Griffin
PA28 - 161
Chicago area
Totally agree that avoiding the need for steep descents (or a—sufficiently early!—go-around) is the best course of action. That said, I take exception to some of the statements that @aerobuffet made regarding slips.
First, if POH mentions technique X in context Y, it does not imply that technique is not applicable, or dangerous, or illegal, in another context, where POH is silent about it. Instead, one needs to rely on the general aviation knowledge, available guidance, manuals, as well as someone’s judgement to decide if they can and want to use the technique in question in situations other than described by the POH.
Regarding slips specifically, they are established part of pilot training curriculum and are covered extensively in the FAA Airplane Flying Handbook, chapter 9. I am very sure no “FAA attorney” will ever go against a pilot solely because they USED a technique that is described in the most basic pilot training handbook, developed by their very own agency.
”Significant crosswind” is a situation, when a (side) slip MUST be used, namely to eliminate the side drift just before the touchdown. Crosswind is also a good example of a situation, where there are two established techniques for flying the airplane on final, crabbing vs slipping approach, where one involves a slip and the other does not. They are both useful and safe. Some airplane manuals mention them, some don’t .
I am not trying to say that a slip is a technique that needs to be used during every flight, but it has its place in the pilot repertoire. If someone is not sure about when/how to apply slips, or afraid about mixing up slips and slipping turns (generally safe) and skids (dangerous), I would suggest spending some time with a CFI, ideally one that has some background in aerobatics. Have them explain both to you, and then do some practice in the air.
Karol Zadora
PA28RT-201T Turbo Arrow IV
Seattle Area
My point was to consider all facets of the particular flying situation before automatically performing a slip. It was not to suggest whether you should or should not perform one. Rather, in what situations and at what point to initiate the slip, and to consider the environmental factors for that specific instance. I use them frequently when needed.
My reference to action by the FAA was intended to be only partially serious. As we all know, far worse miscarriages of the regulations have been made by FAA panels.
Ask a Piper Cub pilot this question 😬