Saratoga fuel selector valve leaking

TogamanTogaman
in General Discussion
My mechanic discovered that a small o ring that fits in a groove of a center pin (located in the center of the fuel selector valve) has gone bad. This center pin goes through the middle of fuel selector valve. The very bottom of this center pin has an o ring that presses against the fuel bowl at the bottom of the plane. The parts manual shows the o ring for the drain bowl and the o ring that fits on the bottom of this (it Is designed to press against the hole on the drain bowl). I cannot find anything for the o ring that fits in the grove of this pin that sits inside the middle cylinder of the selector valve. This is for an 81 Saratoga. Has anyone ever replaced this o ring without a complete rebuild.

Comments

  • Piper TechPiper Tech
    I have think most people have to have them rebuilt, however, I have heard of some replacing the o-ring as required....but they had access to a whole assortment of sytles and sizes. I dont know the part number.
  • bigandybigandy
    I would call the folks at Webco:
    http://www.webcoaircraft.com/contact_us.html

    They rebuilt my fuel selector valve several years ago - and were very helpful. They might be able to provide you with the part number and/or the part.
  • bigandybigandy
    mini_Saratoga-Fuel.png
    I have attached part of the fuel system diagram, if you can identify your part from this, then it might help with part numbers.

    A - When ordering, specify color.
    B - Not used on PA-32R-301 with serial numbers 32R-8513001 and up.
    C - Used on PA-32R-301 with serial numbers 32R-8513001 and up.
    D - Used on PA-32R-301 with serial numbers 32R-8013001 thru 32R-8413001 and up.
    E - Refer to Piper Service Bulletin #772 - Latest Revision.


    62- 98531 DRAWING - Fuel System Installation
    38142 DRAWING - Fuel Selector Valve Installation
    -1 69092-02 ARM ASSEMBLY - Fuel selector control 1
    -2 65407-07 ROD ASSEMBLY - Fuel selector control 1
    -3 554 757 * CLEVIS - (MS35812-1) 1
    -4 38154-00 HANDLE - Quick drain 1
    -5 65461-19 A COVER ASSEMBLY - Quick drain 1
    -6 --- --- DELETED
    -7 --- --- DELETED
    -8 65400-02 ANGLE - Fuel selector control 2
    -9 69094-04 BRACE ASSEMBLY - Fuel selector control 1
    -10 69489-00 PLATE - Tunnel 1
    -11 69093-03 TUBE - Torque, fuel selector control 1
    -12 69088-05 LEVER ASSEMBLY - Fuel selector control 1
    -13 69181-00 * KNOB 1
    419-520 * SCREW - (AN531-6R8) 2
    -14 69735-05 E VALVE ASSEMBLY - Fuel selector (1H65-5) 1
    -15 754 816 * FILTER ASSEMBLY - Fuel selector valve 1
    -16 762 503 * O-RING (Viton) 2-043 1
    -17 755 919 * O-RING (Viton) 1
    -17a 758 534 * BOWL - Fuel filter (A1-90-1) 1
    -18 481 708 PUMP - Electric fuel (1B5-6) 1
    63900-127 B BUSHING - Pump mount 2
    -19 69032-00 STRAP - Electric fuel pump 2
    -20 484 078 ADAPTER - (C5315 x 8 x 6) 2
    -21 560 763 ELBOW - (C5515 x 8 x 6) 1
    -22 67700-177 TUBE ASSEMBLY - Fuel selector to inboard fuel tank 1
    -23 189 732 TAPE - (PMS K0003) 1
    -24 37794-02 VALVE ASSEMBLY - Check 2
    -25 484 846 O-RING - (MS29512-08) 2
    -26 67700-368 TUBE ASSEMBLY - Electric fuel pump 1
    -27 67700-335 TUBE ASSEMBLY - Pump to fuel valve 1
    -28 67700-100 TUBE ASSEMBLY - Fuel selector valve 1
    -29 67700-176 D TUBE ASSEMBLY - Fuel selector valve 1
    67700-401 C TUBE ASSEMBLY - Fuel selector valve 1
    -29a 83744-260 TUBE ASSEMBLY - Fuel selector valve 1
    -30 67700-96 TUBE ASSEMBLY - Fuel selector to inboard fuel tank,
    right 2
    -31 67700-363 TUBE ASSEMBLY - Inboard fuel tank 2
    -32 67700-312 TUBE ASSEMBLY - Fuel vent 2
    -33 67700-314 TUBE ASSEMBLY - Interconnect ground (3/4” diameter) 2
    -34 67700-315 TUBE ASSEMBLY - Interconnect ground (2” diameter) 2
    -35 67700-337 TUBE - Outboard fuel tank 2
    -36 63913-140 HOSE - Connector 4
    -37 63913-93 HOSE - Connector 2
    -38 63913-92 HOSE - Connector 2
    -39 63913-188 HOSE - Fuel vent 2
    -40 38552-02 VENT ASSEMBLY - Fuel 2
    -41 68763-00 STRAINER ASSEMBLY - Fuel 2
    -42 63186-03 MOULDING - Extruded 4
    -43 551 846 UNION - (MS21900W8) 1
    -44 491 053 UNION - (AN815-8D) 4
    -45 424 058 COTTER PIN - (MS24665-281) 1
    -46 416 098 SCREW - (MS35265-45) 2
    690 616 WASHER - (NAS1149FN832P) 2
    404 529 NUT - (MS21042-08) 2
    47 458 914 ELBOW - (AS1040D0808) 1
    -48 690 638 WASHER - (NAS1149FN332P) 2
    -49 477 621 NUT - (AS5178D08) 2
    690 635 WASHER - (NAS1149F1290P) 2
    -50 458 905 ELBOW - (AN833-8D) 1
    51 554 797 CLAMP - (SAE TY F-12) 4
    -52 63976-23 GROMMET 2
    -53 62833-36 WASHER - Fuel selector valve stem 1
    -54 62833-11 WASHER - Rod assembly 2
    690 609 WASHER - (NAS1149F0332P) 1
    424 051 COTTER PIN - (MS24665-132) 1
    -55 410 046 SCREW - (MS24694-S59) 2
    690 612 WASHER - (NAS1149F0363P) 2
    404 526 NUT - (MS21042-3) 2
    -56 424 175 PIN - (MS20392-2C13) 1
    424 051 COTTER PIN - (MS24665-132) 1
    -57 --- --- DELETED
    -58 415 267 SCREW - (8-32 x 1 1/2 L) 2
    494 004 WASHER - (PS10016-8) 2
    -59 400 053 BOLT - (AN3-6) 1
    690 609 WASHER - (NAS1149F0332P) 2
    404 392 NUT - (AN320-3) 1
    424 052 COTTER PIN - (MS24665-134) 1
    -60 416 098 SCREW - (MS35265-45) 4
    -61 654 049 CLAMP - (PS10017-25-38) 2
    -62 654 047 CLAMP - (9432) 6
    -63 67700-369 C TUBE ASSEMBLY - Electric fuel pump 1
    67700-370 D TUBE ASSEMBLY - Electric fuel pump 1
    -64 477 621 NUT - (AS5178D-08) 1
    -65 554 793 CLAMP - (PS10017-23-8) 12
  • radaskiewiczradaskiewicz

    For anyone interested. I have attached some photos of this o ring. I am having leakage issues from this o ring. I have a PA-32R-300 with the 1H65-5 fuel selector valve. This o ring is not called out. Once I figure it out. I will make another update. I don't want to pay $1,000 for a rebuilt valve in lieu of the replacement of a $0.05 o ring.

  • radaskiewiczradaskiewicz

    For anyone interested. I have attached some photos of this o ring. I am having leakage issues from this o ring. I have a PA-32R-300 with the 1H65-5 fuel selector valve.

  • airparts westairparts west

    try MS29513-009.

  • Scott ShererScott Sherer

    Thanks so much, Mark. Your magic is very much appreciated :)

    Scott Sherer
    Wright Brothers Master Pilot, FAA Commercial Pilot
    Aviation Director, Piper Owner Society Forum Moderator and Pipers Author.

    Need help? Let me know!

  • TmccallTmccall

    I had to get power packs plus’s vendor to send me the replacement oring (my overhauled one started leaking just after the warranty period). I was told that it is a custom sized ring and only the certified rebuilders can get it. I tried just about every size that was close but nothing worked.
    Let us know if the MS29513-009 works. Use some fuel lube on the oring and shaft when reinstalling. The shaft can be removed without removing the selector Assy (just put fuel selector in the off position), as the picture above shows.

  • radaskiewiczradaskiewicz

    That MS29513-009 is not this o ring. I have done some measurements of this o ring as well as the shaft that the o ring is applied to. Here are the measurements I got from the o ring I removed that is leaking. I say that because if its leaking, the dimensions are probably not quite right any longer due to wear and age. Pictures of measurements are below.

    Inner Diameter (I.D.) 0.135"
    Outer Diameter (O.D.) 0.198"
    Cross Section (C.S.) 0.038"

    Here are the shaft measurements:
    Inner Diameter of o ring groove 0.135"
    Outer diameter of shaft at o ring groove 0.195"
    Width of o ring groove on shaft 0.065"

    While someone said that this may be a custom o ring, it sure looks to me like it is a metric o ring and specifically it is a metric 1 x 3.3. Here are the measurements of a metric 1 x 3.3 o ring (converted to imperial units):

    Inner Diameter (I.D.) 0.130"
    Outer Diameter (O.D.) 0.209"
    Cross Section (C.S.) 0.039"

    So making the comparison to my worn o ring, here are the dimensional differences and explanation:

    Inner diameter - Metric o ring is 0.005" smaller which it should be smaller than the shaft o ring groove to create a seal. My o ring is most likely worn out/stretched.

    Outer diameter - Metric o ring is 0.011" larger which it should be larger to create the seal to the inner diameter of the fuel selector valve bore. 0.011" is reasonable in my opinion because my o ring is most likely worn. It is larger than the shaft O.D. by 0.014" which makes sense.

    Cross section is almost a match with the metric o ring having a 0.001" larger size which make sense due to wear and age.

    I have ordered 40 of these o rings in Viton and I will update this post when I receive them.

    I have looked and a rebuilt, exchange of this valve is about $1,000. I think it is sad that we are paying those prices for the replacement of a $0.20 o ring. It is also sad that we have to fight for this information to maintain our aging aircraft and we are at the mercy of those who will not share the information in order to keep their pockets lined. Don't get me wrong, I am all about safety and making sure we all fly safe but in my opinion, this is a simple fix that any A&P should be able to do.





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