Hi and thanks for writing. The AD isn't out yet and as far as I know at this time it's being modified a bit as a result of other input. (eg: NTSB and Piper letters to FAA). My guess is that we'll have a final AD within a couple of months and we'll know for sure what it looks like. Right now you're not on it.
Scott Sherer
Wright Brothers Master Pilot, FAA Commercial Pilot
Aviation Director, Piper Owner Society Forum Moderator and Pipers Author.
Hi and thanks for writing. I wouldn't hold off on a 235 but I would check the logs. If there are numerous 100 hour inspections and/or a high time airframe I would move on. The 100 hour inspections indicate that the plane was used alot for training and AD or no AD, you don't want a trainer if you can avoid it. Good luck!
Scott Sherer
Wright Brothers Master Pilot, FAA Commercial Pilot
Aviation Director, Piper Owner Society Forum Moderator and Pipers Author.
Scott, the Dakota (PA-28-236) is not on the list of “affected” aircraft, if I read the list correctly. Do you know whether it is or is not subject to the proposed inspection and/or AD? If not, is that because the wing spar and attachment point construction is different than the PA-28-235? Also, for safety reasons would you bother with the inspection anyway, especially for a non trainer aircraft with less than 5,000 hours TIS? Thanks. Bob
I bought a 1980 Arrow IV two years ago with 5,500 total time. At its first annual had to replace the engine and left fuel tank due to a knife edge gouge in it. The aircraft was all torn apart when I heard about the wing spar issues on PA-28's. So I had my mechanics take off both wings and do a visual inspection etc. They found a few rusted bolts, some surface pitting on the left wing and a light scratch as well. Nothing on the right wing. That is all they found. Everything did look good. New bolts were used for reattaching the wings. I send this info so everyone can have another data point about this situation. Happy Flying to all. Rich Ferguson
Hi, it is my understanding after reading the propsed AD that this is a training accident. High time aircraft that were used extensively for training are the only planes involved. Apparently the 235/236 aren't used for training. You're lucky! Also, taking off wings and reinstalling them can damage the wing mounts so careful about doing that unless you have to for another reason. And be patient and don't over-stress about the AD. It's being refined to include fewer aircraft and should be out soon.
Scott Sherer
Wright Brothers Master Pilot, FAA Commercial Pilot
Aviation Director, Piper Owner Society Forum Moderator and Pipers Author.
Well, I suppose using the FAA's formula, I better get the Archer in to the mechanic. My 1982 Archer II has right around 10,500 TiS, and according to the last 3 of 4 logbooks, no less than 100-110, 100hr inspections. It began it's life at LeTourneau College in Texas as a trainer for pilots and for their A&P school. It was extremely well maintained at that school, the logs show many, many parts replaced, and I've been told by numerous experienced pilots and instructors that it is extremely tight and solid for it's age and TIS. But that said, if there ever was a candidate for spar fatigue like the ones in Florida, I suppose I own it. Better get it checked out before I go on any lengthy trips. Annual isn't due til August, but I think I'll hold off on the overhaul, ADS-B out and avionics upgrade, etc. until I find out if the wings are an issue.
I think that's a wise decision on your point. Just keep in mind that the AD isn't out yet and any inspections done before the AD will most likely have to be redone according to the AD.
Scott Sherer
Wright Brothers Master Pilot, FAA Commercial Pilot
Aviation Director, Piper Owner Society Forum Moderator and Pipers Author.
Rich- Visual inspections are good for large defects. The eddy current (ET) inspection is designed to find cracks that are not visible to the naked eye. The ET inspection is designed to find flaws you cannot see easily with a VT, and these flaws are inspected within the bore of the hole. The inspection is well written, but if there are additional areas attached to the current proposed AD inspection when it becomes mandatory AD, then Scott is correct in that the inspection today would not comply. If the proposed AD does not change (or adds areas for ET inspection), then 28/32 owners can take credit for the inspection today and will not need to reinspect until the interval is determined.
FYI- Performed another one (proposed inspection AD) over the weekend in Central CA, and the inspection was acceptable.
Jim Hofer Aerohoff Inspection Service 760-567-4123 Www.aerohoff.com Sales@aerohoff.com
How much dismantling of the aircraft is required, particularly a PA32 to perform an ET inpection on the spar attachment area ? It is my understanding that the spar fits into a box like structure in the fuselage. Can you do an ET test without sliding spar out ?
Keeping in mind that the actual AD, if and when it comes out, will specify the exact procedure to be taken. We can guess now and hopefully Jim Hofer from Aerohoff can be more specific. Do want to know the time in hours or dollars lol We're all waiting on pins and needles.
Scott Sherer
Wright Brothers Master Pilot, FAA Commercial Pilot
Aviation Director, Piper Owner Society Forum Moderator and Pipers Author.
Only the two outboard fasteners (left and right, forward and aft, outboard fasteners) need to be removed, which makes 4 fasteners total. There is a cover plate on the bottom of the wing that is easily removed to get to the nut side of the fastener. Once the seat is removed, peel the carpet up to access the access holes. Inside these holes, you have access (some are tight access) to remove the fastener completely. Usually best to tap the fastener out from the bottom side. Eddy current Open Hole Inspection is best accessed from the bottom side of the wing. There is an additional high frequency eddy current pencil probe inspection that is needed from the top side as well. Hope this helps and feel free to contact me directly if you have any questions.
My airplane is fine but I'm sure I will get involved in one here in Phoenix. I was told to do one bolt hole at a time with the eddy current inspection and put the bolt back and do the next one. Is this correct as far as you know Jim?
Austin
Didn’t see that in the proposed AD, but most mechanics prep for me and remove all 4 bolts at the same time. Hasn’t been an issue to reinsert fasteners after the open hole eddy current has been performed.
Two HUGE problems have arisen with respect to this potential AD. (1) There are essentially no Level II qualified eddy current inspection teams outside of the airlines, and the few that do exist cost a fortune because you have to pay for their travel to your base in order to perform the eddy current test, and, even worse (2) the disassembly needed to perform the inspection is causing damage in and of itself which will cause the spar to be scrapped. Here is the latest on those two topics:
Any updates on this proposed ad? Last post on this July 23.... makes a guy who just purchased a 1969 180 wonder if he should looks to have an eddy current test done...
Hi and thanks for writing. There's been nothing new for months now and that means it's been 17 months since the accident in Florida that precipitated all of this discussion. So is there an AD coming or not? I just checked the FAA AD webpages and haven't been able to find anything. You can certainly do an eddy current test if it gives you piece of mind but if an AD comes out you may had to do one again.... Unknown, time will tell.
Scott Sherer
Wright Brothers Master Pilot, FAA Commercial Pilot
Aviation Director, Piper Owner Society Forum Moderator and Pipers Author.
Just talked to my mechanic about this this morning while getting an oil change (80 y/o veteran!); he said there will be no AD. "It's just one airplane out of a million that lost a wing, and it had 10K hours of touch and goes". lol....his 2 cents....
Anyone interested in having the Piper Wing Spar Eddy Current inspected, I suggest getting multiple aircraft together, as we can offer a huge discount. Been up to Santa Maria, CA and did 4 airplanes in one day. Saved these owners hundreds of dollars each, as compared to doing just one. Completed about 25 aircraft wing spar inspections to date. Even though it is not AD yet, you may want the piece-of-mind that it was inspected properly. Call me for more details. We’ll travel anywhere to perform our eddy current inspections.
Jim Hofer Aerohoff NDT Oceanside, CA C:760-567-4123 www.aerohoff.com www.eddycurrent guys.com FAA Repair Station: I9OR058X
Comments
In the list of models, the PA-32R-300 (Lance) is NOT listed. Does that mean it is not a part of this?
Hi and thanks for writing. The AD isn't out yet and as far as I know at this time it's being modified a bit as a result of other input. (eg: NTSB and Piper letters to FAA). My guess is that we'll have a final AD within a couple of months and we'll know for sure what it looks like. Right now you're not on it.
Scott Sherer
Wright Brothers Master Pilot, FAA Commercial Pilot
Aviation Director, Piper Owner Society Forum Moderator and Pipers Author.
Need help? Let me know!
@Scott Sherer any opinion on whether holding off on purchase of a 235 is prudent until after final AD?
Hi and thanks for writing. I wouldn't hold off on a 235 but I would check the logs. If there are numerous 100 hour inspections and/or a high time airframe I would move on. The 100 hour inspections indicate that the plane was used alot for training and AD or no AD, you don't want a trainer if you can avoid it. Good luck!
Scott Sherer
Wright Brothers Master Pilot, FAA Commercial Pilot
Aviation Director, Piper Owner Society Forum Moderator and Pipers Author.
Need help? Let me know!
Scott, the Dakota (PA-28-236) is not on the list of “affected” aircraft, if I read the list correctly. Do you know whether it is or is not subject to the proposed inspection and/or AD? If not, is that because the wing spar and attachment point construction is different than the PA-28-235? Also, for safety reasons would you bother with the inspection anyway, especially for a non trainer aircraft with less than 5,000 hours TIS? Thanks. Bob
I bought a 1980 Arrow IV two years ago with 5,500 total time. At its first annual had to replace the engine and left fuel tank due to a knife edge gouge in it. The aircraft was all torn apart when I heard about the wing spar issues on PA-28's. So I had my mechanics take off both wings and do a visual inspection etc. They found a few rusted bolts, some surface pitting on the left wing and a light scratch as well. Nothing on the right wing. That is all they found. Everything did look good. New bolts were used for reattaching the wings. I send this info so everyone can have another data point about this situation. Happy Flying to all. Rich Ferguson
Scott, I have a Dakota (PA-28-236) and didn't see the answer to Stinsonbob (I also have a Stinson) about why the Dakota is not included. jim Custis
Hi, it is my understanding after reading the propsed AD that this is a training accident. High time aircraft that were used extensively for training are the only planes involved. Apparently the 235/236 aren't used for training. You're lucky! Also, taking off wings and reinstalling them can damage the wing mounts so careful about doing that unless you have to for another reason. And be patient and don't over-stress about the AD. It's being refined to include fewer aircraft and should be out soon.
Scott Sherer
Wright Brothers Master Pilot, FAA Commercial Pilot
Aviation Director, Piper Owner Society Forum Moderator and Pipers Author.
Need help? Let me know!
Well, I suppose using the FAA's formula, I better get the Archer in to the mechanic. My 1982 Archer II has right around 10,500 TiS, and according to the last 3 of 4 logbooks, no less than 100-110, 100hr inspections. It began it's life at LeTourneau College in Texas as a trainer for pilots and for their A&P school. It was extremely well maintained at that school, the logs show many, many parts replaced, and I've been told by numerous experienced pilots and instructors that it is extremely tight and solid for it's age and TIS. But that said, if there ever was a candidate for spar fatigue like the ones in Florida, I suppose I own it. Better get it checked out before I go on any lengthy trips. Annual isn't due til August, but I think I'll hold off on the overhaul, ADS-B out and avionics upgrade, etc. until I find out if the wings are an issue.
I think that's a wise decision on your point. Just keep in mind that the AD isn't out yet and any inspections done before the AD will most likely have to be redone according to the AD.
Scott Sherer
Wright Brothers Master Pilot, FAA Commercial Pilot
Aviation Director, Piper Owner Society Forum Moderator and Pipers Author.
Need help? Let me know!
FYI- Performed another one (proposed inspection AD) over the weekend in Central CA, and the inspection was acceptable.
Jim Hofer
Aerohoff Inspection Service
760-567-4123
Www.aerohoff.com
Sales@aerohoff.com
Hi Jim,
What was the result of that inspection? Are you seeing any 28/32's with problems?
Scott Sherer
Wright Brothers Master Pilot, FAA Commercial Pilot
Aviation Director, Piper Owner Society Forum Moderator and Pipers Author.
Need help? Let me know!
Out of the 15 aircraft we performed the inspection to date, there are no rejectable indications thus far.
Jim Hofer
Aerohoff
Thanks Jim. While that's not a statistically valid sample, it is comforting none-the-less. Thanks so much for sharing that info.
Scott Sherer
Wright Brothers Master Pilot, FAA Commercial Pilot
Aviation Director, Piper Owner Society Forum Moderator and Pipers Author.
Need help? Let me know!
How much dismantling of the aircraft is required, particularly a PA32 to perform an ET inpection on the spar attachment area ? It is my understanding that the spar fits into a box like structure in the fuselage. Can you do an ET test without sliding spar out ?
Keeping in mind that the actual AD, if and when it comes out, will specify the exact procedure to be taken. We can guess now and hopefully Jim Hofer from Aerohoff can be more specific. Do want to know the time in hours or dollars lol
We're all waiting on pins and needles.
Scott Sherer
Wright Brothers Master Pilot, FAA Commercial Pilot
Aviation Director, Piper Owner Society Forum Moderator and Pipers Author.
Need help? Let me know!
Eddy current Open Hole Inspection is best accessed from the bottom side of the wing. There is an additional high frequency eddy current pencil probe inspection that is needed from the top side as well. Hope this helps and feel free to contact me directly if you have any questions.
Jim
Aerohoff Inspection Services
760-567-4123
My airplane is fine but I'm sure I will get involved in one here in Phoenix. I was told to do one bolt hole at a time with the eddy current inspection and put the bolt back and do the next one. Is this correct as far as you know Jim?
Austin
Jim
Two HUGE problems have arisen with respect to this potential AD. (1) There are essentially no Level II qualified eddy current inspection teams outside of the airlines, and the few that do exist cost a fortune because you have to pay for their travel to your base in order to perform the eddy current test, and, even worse (2) the disassembly needed to perform the inspection is causing damage in and of itself which will cause the spar to be scrapped. Here is the latest on those two topics:
Hi and thanks for your comments. 15 months after the crash there's still no AD. I find that very interesting....
Scott Sherer
Wright Brothers Master Pilot, FAA Commercial Pilot
Aviation Director, Piper Owner Society Forum Moderator and Pipers Author.
Need help? Let me know!
Hi and thanks for writing. There's been nothing new for months now and that means it's been 17 months since the accident in Florida that precipitated all of this discussion. So is there an AD coming or not? I just checked the FAA AD webpages and haven't been able to find anything. You can certainly do an eddy current test if it gives you piece of mind but if an AD comes out you may had to do one again.... Unknown, time will tell.
Scott Sherer
Wright Brothers Master Pilot, FAA Commercial Pilot
Aviation Director, Piper Owner Society Forum Moderator and Pipers Author.
Need help? Let me know!
Just talked to my mechanic about this this morning while getting an oil change (80 y/o veteran!); he said there will be no AD. "It's just one airplane out of a million that lost a wing, and it had 10K hours of touch and goes". lol....his 2 cents....
Jim Hofer
Aerohoff NDT
Oceanside, CA
C:760-567-4123
www.aerohoff.com
www.eddycurrent guys.com
FAA Repair Station:
I9OR058X