Advice on Direct Route over Rockies

N961EA

Hi guys, I'm planning a trip from Ohio to Nevada in my new PA-28R-180 (Arrow) and was wondering if anyone has ever attempted a direct route over the Rockies in a similar plane. I have a new engine/prop and plenty of oxygen, and the absolute ceiling is 17,000 which is about 3,000 feet above the highest peak. Sounds feasible, but I lack the experience, so any insights are appreciated.
Thanks.

Jmcmanna

All I can say is that it is going to take a long time to get that Arrow to 17,000 feet! Depending on where in Nevada you are going, there are some lower MEAs along I-40 south of Vegas.

N961EA

I’m going to Henderson NV. I don’t mind climbing slowly; as long as there are no other dangers/watch-outs...Like what happens at 17,000? Is it going to be flying at like 50knots?? Lol stuff like that...

Jmcmanna

I believe you lose about an inch of MP per 1000’ of altitude in a NA aircraft. So go fly around at 13” MP plus 1” for every 1000 above SL...so climb to 3000’ and set the MP to 16” and see how it goes!

N961EA

Ok, I’ll try it (unless this is an April fool joke lol). So you’re assuming max MP = 30? I am not near the airplane now so can’t see the gauge.

Jmcmanna

Yeah, at sea level your max MP would be the current altimeter setting. You lose an inch for every 1000’ that you climb, so by my math at 3000’ on a standard day, you’d have 27” available, 13,000 you’d have 17” available, and at 17,000 you’d have 13” available...so I guess go fly around (at a safe altitude) at 13”! I don’t think you’ll go very fast, lol!

N961EA

Got it, and oh, keyword = standard day. With the warm season coming, I’m assuming you’d shave off another couple inches for density altitude. So I’ll attempt 11” MP and report back

Scott Sherer

I've done the Rockies at night from Milwaukee to Reno several times in my turbo Arrow. 17,000 was barely enough. Turbulence can exceed that level and I found myself up at 19,000 a couple of times to get over the bumps and weather. And don't forget the headwinds you're going to get going west. So the risk factors are: single engine, pilot experience, turbulence and weather, headwinds. It's your call.

N961EA

Damn.... I think I’m gonna pass.... I’ll take the southern route... stop in Texas, get a big steak... lol. Turbo Arrow.,,damn... mine is the first Arrow 1967 180HP.... WEAK!!

Scott Sherer

I've done the southern route many times, too. While it's certainly longer it also a beautiful flight and much easier to do.

arrow76r

I used to take the "northern" route, COS to EUG (Oregon) in my C-172 by going COS to LAR, then via I-80, RKS, to northern Utah/Idaho border, then TWF, BOI, RDM, CVO (just north of EUG). The max altitude that way was only 10K for a short time. Now with my Arrow 200, I go more or less direct but it is over some BIG rocks so for the first time I would suggest the first route I mentioned. That also gives you the option of diverting north to Grand Teton and Yellowstone Parks from RKS or EVW.

Scott Sherer

Thanks for your comments, Jim. Living out there you're much more of an expert than I am. thanks again.

arrow76r

I do recall semi-trucks on I-80 in Windoming (!) passing underneath me in my C-172 while heading west

jtham01

I’ve flown the west for over 50 years. Since you are going to the Las Vegas area, I would suggest low route through Las Cruces. I recently delivered a Husky on that route.
Turbulence at the altitudes you can fly can be very uncomfortable. Look at the wind and turbulence forecasts on Foreflight. The general rule is to fly early in the day.

atlord

I am a new member but I thought I might add my 2 cents worth. I have a 1977 PA28R-201 which has the 200 HP engine but is similar to your aircraft but maybe more fuel since I top at 72 gallons. I flew from Bowling Green, Ohio to Nevada (and then CA) over the Rockies an August several years ago and did not take the southern route. I think you have minimal (if any) chance of getting to 17,000 with your aircraft. My climb to 14,000 + was REALLY slow (50 fpm) but I did not stay above 12,000 very long (less than regs for oxygen). I did not carry oxygen and did not need it. I don't think you need 17,000 ft. Check out the route through the pass west of Casper, WY. We stayed in Casper overnight so we could get an EARLY start, which is important because of density altitude, especially in warmer weather. Casper was an interesting place to visit with a couple of nice "cowboy" museums. We stopped in Pocatello, ID (for relatives, not because of any necessity) and then went south through Reno and then southern CA. I definitely agree with jtham01 who said to fly early in the day.

Scott Sherer

Thanks for your comments! I hope to see you on the forums often.

Mitch C

Fly to Mitchell, SD to Gillette, WY, over Jackson Hole to Debou then on to Idaho Falls. I do this trip each summer going to Oshkosh and never have to get above 11,000 feet. Early mornings over the Rockies usually smooth air.

Scott Sherer

Thanks so much, Mitch.

N961EA

That northern route looks great. I just built this one starting in Mitchell: KMHE KCPR KCNY KPGA KHND! Thank you!!

Jimnes

A few years ago I flew from Gillette to Bozeman in my PA 28-181. Before I tried it I called an FBO in Bozeman and spoke with a local CFI. He said they don't fly through the pass if the winds are over 20 kts. I flew at 12,500 with winds right at 20 kts and had no problem. My only problem was carburetor ice on the way down. I would recommend talking with locals.

BillCampbell

I have made the "southern" route across Amarillo, Tucumcari, ABQ, to St John AZ several times. My Archer has had no problems with this route. Depending on the time of year and time of day crossing the Sandia can be very rough. Expect headwinds going, the only question is how high they will be. Also, if you have not done so, take one of the available on-line mountain flying courses. I did before my first flight and it was extremely helpful.

N9091Y

Could you list please the absolute lowest and safest route to cross the Rockies in my Arrow? Coming from Philly. Sounds like a big adventure!
Thanks!

Scott Sherer

Are you going VFR or IFR? If you're going IFR it's alot easier, stay well above the MEA!

arrow76r

What is your destination? I live at the base of the Rockies and have flown west over them MANY times.

arrow76r

MEA is 16k in most places...

Scott Sherer

That's what I remembered. I did Milwaukee to Reno with a night arrival. 16k is what I went out at but 18k would have been smoother.

arrow76r

A couple of years ago there were so many fires in the west that even the tops of the 14'ers were obscured necessitating at least 15k to be safe. But there are a number of lower routes I have done that are safe. Even when I had a C-172 I made the trip to the northwest coast a number of times by following I-80 across Wyoming!! KCOS to Las Vegas has some neat scenery across canyon land and trips southwest to San Diego are a piece of cake. Flaming Gorge reservoir is an oasis in a fairly barren part of southern Wyoming. One thing to plan on is to fly early and be gone from the mountains by noon before the thermals blossom into CBs!! ADS-B coverage is still spotty in most of the mountain areas even at the MEA hence NEXRAD by SiriusXM is my main weather source. Carry lots of fuel as airports are certainly far fewer than in the mid-west and east.

Scott Sherer

Thanks Jim.

sn61pilot

Best to cross in early morning hours before density altitudes and turbulence increase (when the westbound truckers going uphill on I80 are passing you, it’s time to call it a day🤨) Very important to lean your mixture during engine run up prior to takeoff. Take the on-line mountain flying course and if possible with a local instructor when you can. It’s fun! Look at V4 for a northern route. It has wide plateaus and mountain passes and lower MEAs in general. West of Rock Springs is Bear lake one of the highest lakes in the country. Beautiful turquoise color your passengers will admire.

bearair70

I live in Nevada up near Reno, and went to school in Colorado, so I have flown both the Rockies and Sierras. Those that said fly in the morning are right. One other thing to remember is the most direct route may not be the smartest route. You will have a single engine aircraft and any emergencies you may encounter could turn into a survival situation once you get to the ground. Flying within a few miles of highways or known medows is smart planning for plan B. Turbulence over the mountains can be a real bear, so watch the winds aloft forcast, and if the winds exceed 20-25 kts at mountain top level, you might want to fly tomorrow. When crossing a ridge, plan to cross at an angle if possible, and fly up the spine of a lesser ridge so that if you encounter a downdraft, it is a turn into and out of a valley vs. a turn into a rising ridge if you were flying up a valley. If you are headed to Henderson, I would recommend the southern route, although the northern route has lower mountains. Keep in mind where the Oregon & Morman trails ran and why the Gadsdon Purchase was made in 1853. Good luck.

omorg5@gmail.com

First of all find out what density attitude means and then email my son at hughmorgan6@gmail.com..we live on the front range and just flew from FNL to Grand Junction yesterday.....it's a beautiful flight over the rockies...