Anyone had an overhaul recently on a Turbo Arrow III TSIO 360 FB ?

hueyseg

I am at 1600 hrs and want to plan ahead for overhaul. Wondering if anyone has done the research and chose a shop and what pricing on a quality overhaul.
I have some quotes but they seem to vary quite a bit. Thought maybe someone found a good shop and price in the last year and could advise.

Scott Sherer

There are lots of good shops out there. Here's the shop that I've sent all of my TSIO-360's to: https://www.airmarkoverhaul.com/

hueyseg

Thx. I emailed them but they haven't replied yet. Western Skyways and Gann have replied. Pretty big spread on price.

Scott Sherer

OK, let me know. I can recommend others, too. I will tell you that I've had nine TSIO-360-EB's, FB's, and LTSIO-360-EB's. When Airmark did my overhauls, as far back as 18 years ago, I've never needed anything but routine maintenance from that point forward. No top overhauls, nothing... Good luck!

hueyseg

I have heard good things about them from others as well. Looking forward to their reply. But if you have other recommendations as well, please post.

Scott Sherer

another good one is Poplar Grove in Illinois. Great reputation.

hueyseg

Thx.
What do you know about Western Skyways?

Scott Sherer

Nothing directly. I'm hoping another member will respond to your request. In the meantime, make sure you check the Better Business Bureau. I'm assuming the bid difference is significant. Is it apples to apples?

griff390

hsegura; I don't know what kind of quotes you're receiving, but you may want to consider a factory rebuilt zero time engine as an option. I went this route on my last engine (O-320). At the time (10 yrs ago), Lycoming offered price breaks that put the zero time engine within $900 of a shop overhaul. The new engine has the roller cam and lifters, and all AD's are complied with, so those were selling points. It's smoother and makes better power than my old flat tappet engine when it was new. I don't know if it's important to you, but less downtime as well.

hueyseg

I am looking into that with Continental.

Seneca38173

The overhaul discussion is very interesting, especially since Mattituck is no more. But what really caught my attention was Scott's comment: 9 turbocharged Continentals & zero cylinder repairs.

Scott - what's your secret?

Bob

Scott Sherer

Hi Bob,
Four Seneca's. Three Seneca II's and one Seneca III. No top overhauls lol. I only run rich of peak and in the Seneca II's, 75% power was the norm at about 12gph per engine. 2400 rpm 31 inches. In my turbo Arrows, 24/33 and 13.5 gph, also 75% power. I'm very gentle with engines and power changes and watch those CHT/EGT/TIT temps constantly. Engines are solid and totally reliable.

hueyseg

I fly my taiii at 65% and all cylinders are original except one after 1600 hrs.
Update: My issue that had me thinking overhaul, turned out to be an induction leak. But I am glad I got overhaul quotes for when the time comes.

Scott Sherer

good news!

Seneca38173

You're definitely living right!

FAA Southern Region held good a webinar yesterday, called "Bad Maintenance." Speaker was Mike Everhart who runs a shop in North Carolina. After showing whole bunch of scary-looking "how not to" pictures, Mike got onto the topic of cylinder cracking, and how it's caused by improper descents and shock cooling.

My question to you guys: didn't Mike Busch put the whole shock cooling myth to bed during an Oshkosh seminar a few years ago? Is the debate really still alive?

Scott Sherer

Very good question. Not knowing the answer and having asked the question numerous times and thought about it alot, I never move the throttle lower by no more than a few inches at a time. Then wait and do it again. Engines cost alot, treat them well.

jjouscg01@yahoo.com

I had two Lycoming IO-360s overhauled by Western Skyways. They do pretty good work. The one problem i had with them was i did not get one of my original starters back. They were suppose to overhaul the accessories and return them on the engine. Six months after install the engine starter broke in half. Turned out it was starter overhauled 10 years earlier and showed considerable wear. I have the authorized release certificate to prove it. My mechanic said they needed to send a new starter, and despite the evidence they refused. Not sure i want to condemn the shop for that mistake, but beware. I would catalog the part numbers of all accessories and make sure you get the same ones back. As far as the engines go they ran well. No longer have the seneca, it got crunched in Hurricane Harvey. I now have a Turbo Arrow IV. Good luck on your overhaul. All the shops listed so far have good reputations.

hueyseg

Thx for the shop review.

jjouscg01@yahoo.com

I am 350 hours away from overhaul on my TSIO-360FB. I did a top overhaul last year because of low compression on 4 out of 6 cylinders. All cylinders were pretty carboned up. Not sure how the previous owners were operating the engine. Also engine had not been touched since it Was overhauled in 1995! Let us know how your overhaul process goes if you decide on that route.

Stan Owen

I have been a partner in a Turbo Arrow III for over 30 years. Third engine now (FB) with 1100 hours on it. This engine was new from Continental. Previous EB's both had connecting rod failures. Leak down is currently around 70 on all cylinders. Plane came with a Turbo Plus intercooler and installed the Merlyn wastegate controller shortly afterwards. Engine runs so cool that I run with the oil cooler 1/3 to 2/3 covered between summer and winter. Used to cruise at 2400/30@15 GPH 1535 TIT ROP. Two years ago installed GAMI's. Now run 2400/31@11.2 GPH 1600 TIT LOP. Lost about 3 knots. Typically flying 10-12,000 foot range but occasionally at 18,000 for Rocky Mountains. The LOP is giving cooler CHT's and a cleaner belly. Also hoping for a long engine life as the TSIO360 is one expensive engine. I do love having it though, as it will give 100% HP at 18,000 feet with the intercooler/wastegate combination. I have tested it a few times. Sorry, no insight here, just chiming in.

hueyseg

I have gami's and merlyn auto wastegate but no intercooler. I run cool also and in fact sometimes I wonder if too cool.
I also wondered if the turbo plus intercooler added performance as advertised.

jjouscg01@yahoo.com

Stan, i also have GAMIjectors on mine and run about the same power settings as you do. Since the top overhaul i have had 4 oil changes and have put in 2.5 quarts of oil in the engine total between all those oil changes. The oil looks like oil and not the black carboned up stuff that was coming out before the Top overhaul.

hueyseg

P.S. I fly 2300/31 65%, 10.5 gph, TIT 1580.

hueyseg

Doing annual now. Did compression and timing yesterday and all good.

Eshelman

Your profile doesn’t state where you live but if near the Carolinas, I have a recommendation. But I am still waiting to get my FB back from overhaul. Went over 1700 without any cylinder issues. That is until my last annual. One went bad and decided to just do the overhaul. But I like the care, process and price of the shop. Also, I have heard really good things about Poplar Grove (Illinois). Also, glad to see so many Turbo Arrow drivers. I have owned mine for 28 years and still love it.

hueyseg

I am in Louisiana. Plane is based at KARA which is the home of Tobasco.
So when I overhaul, I will probably be shipping the engine or doing a swap.
I am considering going to a Lance, but jury is still out on that.

Scott Sherer

A Lance is an excellent airplane and a good value. Most potential buyers want a Saratoga because of the low tail and they don't like the T tailed Lance as much. However, having put five years on a T tailed Seminole, it really doesn't matter. You'll love a Lance and I recommend it highly and you'll pay less than a Saratoga.

hueyseg

I feel the same way. The big advantage to the Lance is useful load over the Saratoga for me.
Would prefer a turbo, but they say it's expensive to overhaul. Most available have high time engines. So, if I go Lance it will probably be normally aspirated.
Love my arrow but wife wants to rake the neighborhood everywhere. LOL.

hueyseg

P. S.
T tail does not bother me.

Scott Sherer

GET THE TURBO!
I've owned four Seneca's and my turbo Arrow over 30 years. That's 11 engines including the overhauls. I've never had to overhaul a turbo and I've never had one fail. You'll love the performance.

hueyseg

What I meant is the engine used on a turbo is more expensive than the non turbo. Go figure.