Pilot side door on Piper PA28 aircraft

Dattaman@gmail.com

Hi
Why is there no STC for a pilot side door in PA28-type aircraft? I’m certain this question has come up before but can’t find it in the forum. I’ve asked it off Piper sales, tech and marketing employees and always get a funny look. The best reason I’m given is that the structure and strength of the fuselage would be compromised.
It’s really making my life a little hard if I don’t have this safety option given the other choices to buy a first aircraft. Is this a completely crazy / neophyte question?

griff390

Putting a door on the pilot's side would require an immense amount of structural re-design on the fuselage. You'd be required to fabricate your own door and once you've completed the work, you'd need to have it all approved and signed off.

Whether it's crazy or not is subjective. Anything can be done with enough money and engineering. Whether or not its worth it is your decision.

Most passenger jetliners have only one door to ingress/egress passengers, and no doors in the cockpit.

empannin

Adding to Jim's comments, it is also where all the wiring crosses (and sometimes breaker panels) up and over the spar carry thru.

When first attempted it seems like gymnastics to get in and out but it will not be long before you slide right in.

N6399c

N6399c

Here’s what’s behind the side wall.

N6399c

Also FYI my new single piece windshield requires a lot more work installing that I had thought. The plane had to be up on Jack’s as if in flight to get the correct placement and torque for the new windshield and center post that was removed, replaced with another structure supported post. Albeit smaller but required

for structural.

Scott Sherer

That center post is structural and if you remove it without supporting the airframe, you'll bend it. I'm glad your team actually read the directions before starting. I know of one airframe that was totaled this way. It's looking good, keep up the great work!

Wylbur

Two things:

First: Airline doors are on the left side, food cart door is on the right side. Bad comparison. Another thing that makes it a bad comparison: You don't have to step over your wife, buddy, son, daughter, etc. to get into your seat on an airline. You do with a PA28/32, etc. (OK, on the 32, you can enter through the back left door. Good luck getting in the pilot's seat from there.

Second thing to try, and also get used to: Flying from the right seat. CFI/IIs do it all the time. Granted, the sight picture is not what you normally expect and so it leaves one with some anxiety in landing. I speak from experience. I'm trying to learn to fly from the right seat. In a PA32, I am glad that I have long arms for that long reach to turn on the fuel pump, landing light, etc. Then there is getting used to the parallax for the instruments. New found respect for CFI/IIs.

Just say'n'.

griff390

Wylbur;

The single passenger door design is not unique to Piper. As far as I know, none of the modern piston single engine aircraft manufactured by companies like Mooney, Beechcraft, Cirrus, etc. have a pilot side door. They are all on the passenger side, same as Piper. Cessna twins like the 310's, 320's, and the 400 series like the 414, 421, 425 have only one door, and it's nowhere near the pilot's seat. Even the Cessna 195 does not have a door on the pilot side.

I can't see any reason to ever have to climb over another person while getting into the pilot's seat. If you have back seat passengers, put them in first. Next, the pilot enters and slides over to the pilot seat, and the person in the co-pilot seat climbs in last. This type of passenger loading will be the same for all the aircraft brands listed above. I've had very young and very old passengers, and never had to climb over anyone.

I beg to differ on the airline comments, and I stand by my statements from March; most (if not all) airliners have only 1 door to board passengers. The service door on the right side is not used for passengers except as an emergency exit. As far as seating, if you're assigned a window seat and the aisle or middle seats are already occupied, you're either climbing over those passengers or they must leave their seats and stand in the aisle while you shimmy into your seat. Doesn't matter if it's a wide body or even first class, there's no getting around it.

You're correct, no matter what aircraft, the sight picture from the right seat is substantially different. Are you working on a CFI rating?

Cheers!

empannin

The Cirrus has two doors as does The RV10. It was designed in from the beginning and redesigned a number of times for both. Velocity as well has double doors but the strengthening required is significant and leverages fiberglass/epoxy strength. The RV10 is considered a metal plane but the cabin top is actually a sizeable fiberglass structure.

I load middle seats from the aft entrance, then the far back (club), then I close the door and confirm it is locked, then pilot, then co-pilot seat, reach over and confirm the door is closed and done.

I had a 421C for awhile too and similar. I would not want a pilot door - that would open almost right into the prop!

griff390

I was speaking mostly to commercially built aircraft, but I agree, if you do the engineering right on an experimental, you can build in as many doors as your heart desires.

Love the RV-10. Almost pulled the trigger on one a few years back, even flew out to the Vans facility in OR and test flew the airplane. Incredible performer. Unfortunately all the 4-seat experimentals that interested me had a major drawback. In the PA-28 I can fit 2 sets of golf clubs, luggage, and 2-3 people, but not so easy in the experimentals. It's not a matter of weight capacity, but cargo volume. Most can't even fit the 2 sets of clubs alone in the luggage area. One of the Vans representatives suggested that I could build a cargo "pod" and attach it to the bottom of the plane, but that didn't appeal to me. So I'm giving up 30-40 kts of speed to some of the experimentals, but I can make it in one trip.

I've worked on a few 421's and 425's. The Conquest II is an amazing aircraft, and every pilot that flew them loved it. Cessna cited slowing sales as the reason they stopped making them, but everyone still wonders if it was impacting sales of the Citation? The 425 wasn't that much slower, and had better range than the early Citations.

empannin

I was building an RV-10 in 2003 but sold the kit partially complete by the 2nd kid as I did not have the time and we wanted to go flying. Later I ended up in a partnership with a flying RV-10 but ultimately there is not enough luggage space for two adults and two kids as you have also concluded.
When my wife wanted to do trips with our 80 lb yellow lab it was clear that a change was needed. The Seneca II works perfect as the aft entry and space available are perfect for big dogs. The forward and aft baggage areas give flexibility for W/B too.

The 421 was a fantastic experience and for a number of years we had grand adventures in the pacific NW flying 4 adults and 4 kids to the San Juans for 3day weekend trips sailing. The costs were enormous but great fun. Now that the kids are older it is much harder to keep everyone in the same space for a day with competing interests. Would be even more complicated coordinating with another family.

For me right now, a 6 seat Seneca with the back seats out and the big loading door is perfect. I had a 6 seat Cessna 310 for awhile but like the layout on the Seneca much better.

You can buy a Conquest II for < $1M but the budget to keep it and you in top flying shape would be significant!