Rusty, Rusty Pilot

The last time I was PIC was back in about 2000, and I stopped flying with about 100 hours on the books. I have been an AOPA member since 1997 and kept up with my monthly magazine reading on general aviation. I joined the Piper community because I recently rode with a friend who owns a Piper Seneca, and I fell back in love with flying... so I joined this community as I aspire to hopefully purchase a Six (or similar 6-seater in the next 12-18 months). Now, I am studying for my flight review, studying private pilot flight maneuvers, and scheduling time with the instructor. What worries me is the new technology; when I stopped flying, it was paper charts and a calculator. Questions: What should I do on the ground to better prepare? Do you have any other suggestions for a pilot who stopped flying 24 years ago?

Comments

  • edited November 4

    Hi Piloto9026,

    Welcome back to flying! You ask some very good questions, and I can sympathize with you as I had the same experience getting instrument current after last flying IFR before WAAS GPS! But that is another story...

    You are on the right track for sure. The most important part; scheduling time with a flight instructor to get the dust off and also review all the attention robbing technology now installed in your aircraft! If you can settle on one aircraft for your reintroduction into the air, it will help to download the user manuals for the avionics in that aircraft, and be forewarned, THEY ARE ALL DIFFERENT, FROM EVERY MANUFACTURER. So while people poo poo "steam gauges" or what I like to call "legacy instrumentation," of the past in favor of glass, at least a pilot could jump into almost any aircraft and fly it without having to learn a manufacturer specific operating procedure! Not so much now, so concentrate on the equipment you will be using for your Flight Review. Remember to look out the window! Give "the box" only a few moments of your attention at a time, in between flying the airplane and looking out the window!

    If you have not looked at the regs recently you will find they have "bloomed" for lack of a better word. Part 61 and 91 in particular have grown in size to cover many areas not affecting the average private pilot such as fractional ownership, turbine aircraft operations, etc. If you have not looked at the AIM in a while, that too has become enormous. It will take some time to review each, but look for the sections most likely to affect your type of flying. The Flight Review should be tailored to your type of flying as well and remember, it is NOT a test. There is no pass or fail. If the instructor feels you need more work on a particular area, they will simply log it as dual, without the 61.56 endorsement. No worries, just take the opportunity to practice and study some more.

    Lastly, get a trial copy of ForeFlight and load it onto an iPad with built in GPS. If you do not have an iPad, you will find ForeFlight indispensable for flight planning in seconds what use to take you hours. There are many free training resources from ForeFlight as well. It will also run on your iPhone as a backup!

    Tell yourself it is going to take some hours of study and air work, "culminating" in a Flight Review. Do not try to do it all in one flight or one hour of ground. Let the instructor set the pace and use the time to explore any areas of concern or uncertainty. Then, get out there and fly...safely!

    Regards,

    Mike

    • Michael Jay Jones (MikeJJ)
    • Piper Owners Aviation Director, Forum Moderator, Author
    • Commercial, Instrument, CFI - Airplane
    • Commercial Helicopter, Remote Pilot - UAS
    • FAA Wright Brothers Master Pilot
    • 50+ years in aviation, and still learning!


  • In addition to all Mike's comments might want to check out sportys! Lots of back in the saddle information for everyone. Carl

    48 yrs A/P IA DAL aircraft inspector. 172N

  • From one of the CFI's along my pathway, count on at least 1 hour of dual for every year of absence from PIC, especially if regaining IFR. The more time available for committing to recurrent training, the closer to 1h:1y it will take. If only regaining VFR, might take a little less time.


    There are a few notable differences in tower instructions. One example is: "Taxi into position and hold" is now "Line up and wait."


    To help with budgets, might consider asking for an insurance quote as chances are good that the industry will want to play a bit of catch-up at first from not paying them for all those years.


    Agree that stepping into the new technology can raise concern and dampen self confidence. Manufacturers do try to make their equipment as user friendly as possible, although Mike is spot-on regarding each manufacturer going about it differently. Last I recall seeing studies regarding glass versus steam gauges, you are actually in a good place as pilots who learned on dinosaur instruments have an easier time transitioning to glass than those who learned on glass and try to use steam.


    When it comes time to start flying a single in the 260 - 300hp territory, get ready to start walking in counterclockwise circles after you do a bunch of touch-and-go's as your right leg is going to bulk-up from a workout.


    Another item from the advance prep perspective is that once the purchase occurs, plan on flying some more with a CFI to discover that plane's numbers. Specifically: manifold pressure, RPMs, flap setting, and gear position (if applicable) combinations for each phase of flight and position in the pattern. While a good starting place to gather the numbers is the POH and asking others with the same plane, each plane truly is unique. Once you and the CFI are confident in the numbers, quickly turning them into muscle memory will help with staying ahead of the plane.

  • Thank you to everyone for taking the time to think through my questions, answer my questions, and give me the best guidance to date!

  • I am happy to report I am back in the air with a CFI. I've been practicing my landings (172), navigating, etc... it's all coming back. I am not in a rush to be let loose on my own until the instructor feels I am ready to do so, and based on my performance so far, I am guessing probably another 2-4 hours of training (I have about 5 hrs in so far). It FELT great to get some smooth landings after not having flown for 24 years.

    My Question: I don't want to take another 20 years (I'm 54) to get my IFR. So, I have decided that in 2025, I will get my IFR and want to do an accelerated program (and my multi/commercial in 2026). I heard about the GATTS Program out of Kansas. In 7 days, I can get my IFR. I also spoke to a local instructor, and he frowned on it. Does anyone have constructive comments or suggestions about the existing accelerated IFR programs? Thank You

  • I love the idea of an accelerated school, even if you don’t necessarily complete your IFR in seven days. The reason is the task of designing a seven day program forced them to solve, or at least address, the host of problems that dogs all flight schools, such as:

    • they will insist you study for and complete the knowledge test before you ever sit in the cockpit. They’ll probably also provide the syllabus and a POH, and give you a take home quiz on both before you arrive.
    • weather will impact your training. The accelerated school has a strong incentive to use weather cancels wisely, such as practicing procedures in a high quality loggable simulator, and the instructor will know how to use the simulator.
    • maintenance will impact your training. The accelerated school will either have spare planes, or competent onsite A&Ps, to minimize down time.
    • Manpower will affect your training. For example, one school (not accelerated) I’m familiar with has three stage checks that must be passed prior to sign off for the DPE. Last year the chief pilot, who conducts the stage checks, was on vacation for six weeks. Every one of their students wasted a month and a half waiting for him to return. The accelerated school will either have someone else who can do stage checks, or better yet highly experienced CFIs who obviate the need for chief pilot intervention in the first place.

    i could go on and on, but the bottom line is developing a seven day program forces the school to be very organized, and committed to serving the students.

    any idea why the local instructor frowned on it?

    Bob

  • edited December 2

    Piloto, congrats on getting back up there. I will 2nd Bob's comments on accelerated training and I think you are doing it for the right reasons.

    The wrong reason is I am flying my family from Buffalo to Miami on Dec 28th and want to get my IFR ticket no later than Dec 27th so I am ready to go....

    The advantage of a long program is you forget about 80% of it between lessons so you are constantly relearning. This is not good for the wallet but it is good for a strong foundation.

    If you are doing an accelerated program I would recommend planning regular IFR flights afterwards with and without an instructor to really bed in those skills.

    I would also recommend seeking out IMC appropriate to your skill level and with an instructor as appropriate. It is possible your accelerated course would be blue skies every day. I don't care what the hood is - if it is VFR there are plenty of clues to attitude from shadows and lighting alone so you inadvertently "cheat"

    I would also think about your fresh IFR ticket as seasonal or regional too. Spring/summer convective weather is a much different environment vs fall/winter. The inter mountain west is very different vs mid-west. It is not anything insurmountable but when they describe the IFR ticket as a license to learn they are not kidding! ;)

    I would also suggest a 7 day traveling program is better vs the same x approaches to the same y airports. This is often the challenge of an extended cert at a local field. you get an hour or two here and there often flying the same approaches over and over.

    Other IFR tips and recommendations:

    • Bug everyone you know to review your cross country plans. It is your call in the end but listen and balance advice. If you ask for advice tell them how it went after flying or after looking at the actual weather if you did not fly. Offer the same for their flights. Everyone is learning and usually no "right" answer.
    • Weather is not learned in 7 days or even a year. You will always be learning about the weather.
    • Score yourself after trips are completed on decision making and what you could have done better, what you learned, what you will do different. I would say if you review actual weather about 50% of the flights you scrub would have been doable within your limits. This is not bad at all.
    • Don't let anyone EVER bully you into exceeding your personal limits.
    • Don't fly IFR (especially in IMC) in planes you are not familiar with.
    • Be careful flying IFR as PIC with another IFR rated pilot. Commercial airlines invest huge amounts of training in this space to make sure everyone is on the same page and clear on who is flying. You will find the "helpful" button pusher who will push the wrong button at the wrong time...
    • One of the more dangerous combinations is the the VFR pilot/owner in the left seat wanting you to file IFR for the "easy" trip. They are pretty sure it is all current. They did the pitot thing a couple years ago and update the GPS database every year...
    • Don't fly IFR post maint without a VFR test flight and you should fly at altitudes up to your intended cruise altitude
    • I would recommend giving yourself at least a 2 day weather window on either end of a trip. If the inner dialog is "the ground fog will lift a couple hours before the hurricane hits" then you are pushing your luck.
    • Avoid mixing emotional events like weddings and funerals with flying. It is tough to avoid distraction.
    • Flying can be a tremendous asset for business but be cautious mixing business and flying. "If I don't fly I will lose the deal" is huge pressure to cut corners.
    • Most accidents start on the ground as some shortfall in pre-flight planning.
    • You may not be a professional pilot - but flying IFR you are flying with the professionals and the expectations are high. Make us proud!
    • If you have a GA piston plane you do not have a known ice plane. You may have enough capability to get out of a tough spot but it is not worth pushing your luck even with FIKI boot systems. Most of these planes are grandfathered in to FIKI status but would not pass current standards.
    • Don't fly within 3,000 feet of terrain IFR or within 4,000 feet of your service ceiling. This may very well limit your flying in a non-turbo plane.
    • Use O2 above 10k feet during the day and 8k at night.
    • Fly Victor airways. It is often marginal savings to fly direct.
    • Use the Autopilot but never trust it.
    • Don't plan or accept direct routes over hostile terrain. The intermountain west is a graveyard of pilots flying direct over some of the most inhospitable terrain in the US.
    • In a 7 days program I would expect the first 3-4 days you will collapse back in your bed - brain shot, questioning your decisions, and physically drained from the concentration. Make sure you have no other distractions.
    • By the last day of the program you should have convinced yourself that you are good at this and could have shot a lower approach, a missed, a procedure turn, troubleshot an engine issue or handled a last minute vector change without too much drama.

    Keep us updated!

    Eric Panning
    1981 Seneca III
    Hillsboro, OR (KHIO)

  • The instructor believed that getting enough foundation in 7 days was impossible to pass the checkride. I tend to agree with him, but with a caveat. I want to be ready to purchase a plane and have IFR under my belt (lower insurance); nevertheless, I also understand that I will be new to IFR and must continue learning and practicing it with an experienced instructor.

  • edited December 2

    Ok, so this comes back to a previous question about goals. If looking to get IFR for that trip in 2 weeks, not a good idea. But, if in knowing yourself, and a 7 day course provides the rigor that you must have, then that is a worthwhile approach.


    Overall, adding to the choir about benefits of concentrating the effort.

    FWIW, some instructors will not do IFR instruction in actual IMC and instead do ground instruction.

    Only possible negative that comes to mind for a 7 day course is that flight time might include weather that is at the upper limits for the plane and outside a typical pleasure flight's scope. Moderate turbulence and strong crosswinds are worth experiencing, especially while hand flying and trying to keep the needles in the bubble, but I don't need to fly in that stuff anymore.

    While on the weather topic, if expecting to do long cross country trips, plan on actual conditions not always matching forecast by the time you get there. It is not uncommon for me to fly higher than originally planned to avoid clouds (even via IFR). One time the briefer (Yes, I still call and talk with somebody even though I have all this electronic goodness that legally qualifies as a weather brief) made an offhand observation about the potential of convective activity near my destination by the time I expected to arrive, and only mentioned it just to cover himself. That "remote possibility of convective activity" turned into a huge diversion to avoid a ~20 mile wide pop-up stationary thunderstorm right in the middle of my route. Point is, have an "out" for every minute of the flight. Oh, and if ATC recommends deviation to avoid a harmless looking cloud in the path, turn as suggested rather than find out why they are looking to steer you around. Knowing which types of clouds are likely benign to fly through (IFR, of course) and which are likely kidney bruisers is a skill to learn quickly.

    Related to weather, if the future plane does not have ADSB-IN, get it! Aside from benefit of traffic alerts, the ability to receive weather is priceless. Just keep in mind that NEXRAD weather inputs have delays (up to ~15 minutes), so only use it for strategy of how to steer clear of trouble and never for picking a path through storms or ice. There is the option of getting satellite weather service, but unless streaming entertainment content in the plane is an absolute must-have, the free ground based service is perfectly fine.

    And as mentioned already, IFR is a completely different game in terms of acting professional. IFR is also a mentality that looks for risk reduction at all times. Completely agree that the ability to tell passengers "No!" is a tough thing, but it gets easier with each balk. While a lot of focus goes into preparing the pilot for things like loss of visibility and loss of instruments, do not see much discussion on making the plane ready for mitigating losses. Yes, there are inherit things like the engine continuing to run when the main power bus fails, but from there we are left to simply accept losses (ie: partial panel, etc). I'll argue that we should build the plane and equip the flight bag with mitigations in place without getting into gold plating or lots of extra weight. Examples:

    - dedicated VHF antenna for use with a handheld radio.

    - carrying a handheld radio, along with headset dongle adapter. Rechargeable battery pack is Ok, a battery pack which uses AA batteries with 20 year expiration is better (along with marking the expiration date).

    - secondary ADSB-IN source. Portables like Stratus and Sentry are popular, I have a Stratux.

    - For electronic replacements of steam gauges (ex: UAvionics AV-30, Garmin G-5, etc), size the backup battery to allow for the mission. "Up to one hour" of run-time is good for VFR and unplanned / brief IFR. But don't count on much more than a single approach to the nearest field with "Up to one hour" of battery life.

    - at least two EFB's, and preferably units identical to each other. Bonus is also using the EFB for Geo-referenced charts.


    One topic not on the table so far is working with ATC at the IFR level. Instructors will focus on your skills and how you work with ATC by understanding and complying with directions. But, there is usually not much focus on how to push-back when things are not right. Put another way, ATC knows what it sees, but not what you see. As an example, one ATC sector (not naming names) regularly tries to dump me out of IFR into VFR somewhere around IAF even though I am still in IMC (that ATC sector is based at a regional airport and my destination is one of the fields within their coverage area). Except, last I checked, switching to VFR when in IMC, is not necessarily FAR/AIM compliant. Yes, I get vectors, cleared for the approach, and am confident in my own skills to get down safely, but do not want to get a requirement for recurrent training should a FAA rep observe the flight from the destination field. Point is, knowing how to direct ATC on what needs to happen is just as important as understanding directions and complying.

    Last thought item in case it was not part of the earlier training. "Sterile Cockpit" is an awesome tool! This will prevent CFI's from doing what they do best of trying to push you outside of your mental processing limits. Sure, getting pushed past limits does help with the learning process, and at the same time can also detract as once you get 'baked', the learning (and focus on flight) temporarily stops. If not familiar with Sterile Cockpit, it is a specific direction that tells others to not create any distractions and allow the pilot to focus on controlling the aircraft. I usually go over Sterile Cockpit with the CFI in advance of a flight as I want to make sure that the CFI knows that I also expect him / her to remain a valuable resource and to encourage making helpful inputs as part of good cockpit resource management (CRM), but not to distract once I make the call (which is usually by the time we get to the traffic pattern (if VFR) or IA / IAF (if IFR). Good use of Sterile Cockpit should also gain respect from the CFI and Examiner. I also do this with non-pilot passengers about 20 miles from destination.


    Hope this is helpful and the upcoming lessons are enjoyable.

  • I share your instructors concern, at least to a degree. Almost every education experience we have in our lives is pre designed with a fixed schedule, showing the exact graduation date often many years in advance. It probably also has a lot of built in tolerance for imperfection, so even if you don’t get an “A,” in say World History, or second year Epidemiology, you’ll still get a good job and do just fine.

    Aviation is completely different. There’s no fixed schedule or curriculum and the only real certainty is that you’ll have to demonstrate the knowledge and maneuvers listed in the ACS to the satisfaction of an experienced professional pilot, in order to earn the certificate. But even that is very gray since pass/fail is up to examiners judgement. And even if you do get the “A,” aviation can be unforgiving of many types of errors. That’s why several DPEs have told me they pass the people who “leave them confident they’ll never get a call from the NTSB.” They want to see good judgement and prudent decision making far more than shooting the perfect LPV to minimums.

    I wasn’t familiar with GATTS until you mentioned them. The website is very professional, and they’ve addressed most of the issues raised by the posters above, including what happens if you don’t finish in seven days. If you do all the pre work, I don’t think you’ll have a problem passing in a week, especially since they provide the Examiner.

    Bob

  • Thank you all for your invaluable feedback, advice, and support—it truly means so much to me. As I take this next step, I’m keeping your words in mind and feeling more motivated than ever.

    I’m thrilled to continue my aviation journey in 2025, a dream I’ve been talking about for years. As my wife wisely pointed out recently, “You’re finally doing it—you should have started sooner.” (She’s right, as usual, and it’s a reminder for all of us to jump into those things we’ve been putting off.)

    The saying, “When the student is ready, the teacher will appear,” couldn’t resonate more right now. Here’s to learning, growth, and the exciting path ahead!

Sign In or Register to comment.