Cold Air Advice
I am planning a trip from Florida to Connecticut the first week of January.
I last flew cold weather in 1983 so help refresh my memory. What outside temps will I be able to start the engine. I don't believe I will have access to a hanger to keep it warm.
Give me some free internet advice please.
Thanks.
Andy
Andy Sikora
1972 PA28R-200
X51
Retired Miami ATCT/Tracon
Comments
Do you have access to electricity? I take it you dont have a Reiff or Tanis system? You could jury rig up a space heater under the cowl if you have access to 110 power. But I also wonder if your battery will have enough to even turn the prop under very cold conditions.
I own and fly a 79 PA32RT-300T. Previous aircraft are a 79 Archer and 76 Arrow.
To add, you also have to consider "cold soaked" electronics...if you can put an electric space heater in the cabin a couple of hours before TO.
No power out on the field. I am going to check with the FBO and see if they have a hanger to warm the plane up before flight. I used to live up north, trying to put my up north hat on. Ugg! I haven't thought about this in years. My winter flying remains in the south.
Are there any battery powered heaters for the engine I can order before I go?
Andy Sikora
1972 PA28R-200
X51
Retired Miami ATCT/Tracon
Easy test is to simply engage the starter and see what happens. Either the prop spins, or it doesn't.
For a more practical approach, might consider checking with the local A&P for inputs based on real world factors of the plane itself. Type of oil will play into the decision of preheating and how long.
In terms of physically starting the engine, a hangar neighbor starts his in the 20*'s F range without preheat. On the other end of the spectrum, I preheat when below 60*F as I am trying to give the engine and components a longer life.
As noted, cold oil is rough on the battery and starter. Not a friend of the rotational driven steam gauges either.
Checking with the Connecticut FBO is a good plan as chances are good that they will have the ability to preheat. Especially seeing that this is likely not their first visitor experience 😊
Hi,
A harbor freight generator like the one below will provide plenty of power for heating and you can let it run for hours. They make dedicated ceramic heaters for planes for ~699 or so but you could also get something like this:
and put it in the cowl. The ceramic heaters are a good choice as they will not overheat even if airflow is blocked. I would put 800W in the cowl and 250 to 500W in the cabin. You would need to start the warm up process hours in advance but it would work.
Eric
Eric Panning
1981 Seneca III
Hillsboro, OR (KHIO)
Put foil ducting tape over oil cooler to keep oil temps above 180 degrees. One strip covers 1/2 the width of oil cooler...2 does the entire oil cooler. When you get to warmer climates simply peel tape off oil cooler. No tools required.
Suggest if you are not using it already, fresh multi-vis oil, Phillips xc or Shell 15w50. While rather extreme, might be good idea to have a fire extinguisher in the plane just in case you overprime and have a "event" Hopefully the FBO will be willing to help if you can give them advance notice of your needs. Carl
48 yrs A/P IA DAL aircraft inspector. 172N
Carl,
Thanks. I use Phillips XC and carry 2 fire extinguishers just in case.
And general info. The FBO has a propane cowling heater and they say can warm the engine in 20-30 minutes so you can get it started. So if it is cold, they said the engine will be well above freezing temp and usually starts right up. Crazy cool!
Andy Sikora
1972 PA28R-200
X51
Retired Miami ATCT/Tracon
Andy,
make sure they don't shorten the process. The oil also needs to be warm and the problem with some of those heaters is they warm it until the cylinders are good but the oil is still "frozen". This is very hard on the engine and the oil cooler.
Eric Panning
1981 Seneca III
Hillsboro, OR (KHIO)
Eric,
Thanks! another thing to watch for.
Is warming up the interior for the electronics a necessary thing?
Andy Sikora
1972 PA28R-200
X51
Retired Miami ATCT/Tracon
the gyro's do better when warm as well. The issue is also condensation where the air warms up with you in the plane but the electronics are still cold. Humidity can condense on your cold avionics and instruments
Eric Panning
1981 Seneca III
Hillsboro, OR (KHIO)
You have all the ducks in a row, you will be fine. carl
48 yrs A/P IA DAL aircraft inspector. 172N
The small generator option seems like a solid bet as long as you have the UL to also take it with you. It will run on sump 100LL and a small space heater inside the engine as well as in the footboard aught to be enough.
I own and fly a 79 PA32RT-300T. Previous aircraft are a 79 Archer and 76 Arrow.
Just a reminder to jog your northern memory….do not try and take off with FROST on the airplane, warm engine or not. Accident reports of many pilots who have tried. Hopefully you will have good weather, but consider a backup travel plan just in case.
Mike,
My back up plan for weather going up is don't go. If I get stuck up there, and that is more of a worry, is to wait out the weather. I am retired so I have time and the ability to rearrange my schedule. But that is why I have been asking about warming and getting the plane running in the event of very cold air and snow. But if there is snow or frost, I will be on the ground waiting till it warms. Thanks for the concern!
Andy Sikora
1972 PA28R-200
X51
Retired Miami ATCT/Tracon
Here is another item for the destination.
As it appears the plane will sit outside, consider focusing just as much on making sure it is water tight. Temperatures in that section of the country commonly swing above freezing during the day, and below at night. Sometimes the day temperatures stay below freezing, but not for a long stretch. If there are any leaks, freezing water will help them expand into bigger pathways.
To add to jacobsja comment...a good cover is recommended. I use one from Bruce that covers the front windscreen to include the aft doors. I've used it in a number of conditions and will help moisture from seeping in and freezing.
Check out this web site.
https://aircraftcovers.com/
Bruce's is great! I had several for many of my planes over the decades :)
Scott Sherer
Wright Brothers Master Pilot, FAA Commercial Pilot
Not certain what your flying but one thing that caused me some unnecessary aggravation a couple years ago when doing a winter flight up to St. Louis from SW Florida (where I am based), involved the differences in oil viscosity in cold vs warm climates.
In my PA32-300 with a mid-time IO540 and a variable speed prop, my SW Fl standard oil had been a Aeroshell 100 weight which has served me well in very warm temperatures for a long time. Unfortunately, it does not like the cold and requires a longer warm up and a few more prop cycles after it is warm to get oil through the prop.
In discussing with my shop, they recommended that I consider using a 20-50 weight blend when flying cold or at a minimum letting the engine warm up on the ground longer then I do in Florida... either way both points made sense and part of my warm to cold weather SOP.
Am finding that the 540 consumes less oil when using multi weight, even in warm / hot climates.
In cold climates I do at least one very slow cycle of the governor during ground test to circulate warmer oil into the system. Does not matter whether single or multi weight.
mws95 thanks for the suggestions. I currently have 20w50 oil in the plane
Jacobsja, I have an outside cover that covers the windows and doors. I will take your advice on warming up and cycling slowly. I had already thought of that.
I leave in a few more days and hoping the weather forecast holds ups, so far looks ok.
Thank you all for the suggestions, and one more thing, I figured out how to put the winterization plate in and am planning to put it in somewhere around North Carolina. Seems it would not be smart to put it in here in Florida!
I'll post an update on this trip. Hoping for no snow while I am up there but that may or may not be how it goes.
Andy Sikora
1972 PA28R-200
X51
Retired Miami ATCT/Tracon
Watch your oil temp. If it is staying at 180 than consider NOT putting in the winterization plate. I just took mine back out because the temps have been so high. My oil was running way too hot.
With the temps they way they have been, you may not have to worry about any preheat at all. It has been unusually warm. The forecast for the next seven days is more warm.
If it happens to be a morning with frost, turning the airplane so it points directly into or away from the sun can sometimes be helpful.
Thanks for all the good advice! I have logged 2200 miles in the last week in my Arrow. Flew all the way to Connecticut without the winterization plate. Stopped in Richmond and it was 48 degrees. That 3 hours flight to Connecticut, I probably should have had it in. Put the winterization plate in when I got up there. The first picture is the propane engine heater they used to get me heading south. Engine turned right over, oil temp read just over 75 when I started it. Flew as far as Jacksonville with the winter plate in. Engine temp was perfect coming down the coast, 180. Took it out in Jacksonville to south Florida. What an amazing trip!
You guys really helped me figure out some of the important details, so thanks!!!
Andy Sikora
1972 PA28R-200
X51
Retired Miami ATCT/Tracon
Nicely done, Andy!!
Scott Sherer
Wright Brothers Master Pilot, FAA Commercial Pilot
The lower photo is worthy of a frame.
1973 Arrow II factory AC removed
G5’S, G275, GNX375 Still can get lost.
Good Advice, I had not thought of that. Just sent them to be printed.
Andy Sikora
1972 PA28R-200
X51
Retired Miami ATCT/Tracon
Kewl
Let us know if they came out well.
1973 Arrow II factory AC removed
G5’S, G275, GNX375 Still can get lost.
RE: Oil Winterization Plate
Always carry a #2 Phillips screwdriver to install and remove the thing. When flying to a different weather area, you may suddenly find that you’re configured incorrectly, probably on an evening or weekend when there’s no A&P available or anyone else who possesses a screwdriver. You might also need a good tire gauge.
On the plus side, my Arrow climbs like an F-16 when the OAT is below freezing :-)