Selling an airplane

ric743256 · April 2023

I'm not planning on selling my airplane anytime soon, but I had some questions about the process.

When you have someone interested in buying it, what do you let them do? Do you let them fly it? When it come to there pre buy, how much leeway do you give them or there mechanic? Do you insist on them using an escrow account? Any other tips or suggestion would be helpful.

Richard

Seneca38173 · April 2023

Richard,

those are all good questions. It's been a while since I sold a plane, but when I bought my Seneca we did the following:

The seller hired a local-to-him CFI to ride with me on the test flight. I'd never thought of doing that, but it worked out great. I'd be inclined to do the same the next time I sell a plane.
We agreed in advance on an A&P/IA to perform the prepurchase. I gave both the seller and the IA my list of things I wanted a status on, and these were the items that could either cause us to "fall out of the sky," on the way home, or would be a significant repair expense.
Once the inspection was complete, we met in the manager's office of a local-to-the seller Bank of America to exchange papers, keys and funds. No escrow was involved.

My Seneca purchase was a piece of cake, largely due to the seller's sincerity and ability to communicate.

Contrast this with my experience trying to purchase a Porsche from a "biotech entrepreneur" in Pittsburg. He attempted to dictate all terms of the negotiation - precisely which dealer would perform the inspection, precisely who would handle the escrow and the specific Ts and Cs of the escrow, and even which day of the week this would all be conducted on. Eventually something didn't smell right, so I passed on the deal and bought elsewhere. And about a year later I heard that the "entrepreneur's" board had both fired and sued him to recover several million dollars of their money he had used to purchase personal homes and automobiles.

It is interesting how a business partner's assumptions reflect their intrinsic values. Those who are inherently honest assume others will be too. And those who are dishonest expect everyone will be trying to cheat them.

Bob

Unit74 · April 2023

Just facts, Maam:

https://www.aopa.org/go-fly/aircraft-and-ownership/selling-an-aircraft

Some perspective:

https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2004/april/pilot/selling-your-airplane

What the plastic plane owners think should happen:

https://www.cirruspilots.org/Publications/Articles/buying-and-selling-a-used-airplane-what-you-dont-know-can-hurt-you

A discussion on brokering it:

https://www.flyingmag.com/why-hire-broker-to-buy-or-sell-and-airplane/

A bit more color:

https://iflyamerica.org/tips_on_selling_aircraft.asp

From a brokers perspective:

https://johnbellaircraft.com/how-to-buy-sell-aircraft/

And there is a bunch more to read on the Google Machine.

lWhat the plastic

matto-atl · April 2023

Richard - Good info from others, thought I'd chime in too. I haven't been on the selling side yet but I went through the buying process just a few years ago. Since I'm a little neurotic (according to my wife, anyway) I asked around and also talked with an aviation attorney in my area to figure out the "right way" to do some of this stuff. My tips:

Be sure to use a written and signed a purchase agreement as early as possible (AOPA has a good sample one available that my attorney was generally happy with) so everyone is on the same page and you don't waste a bunch of time. We signed one the same day my verbal offer was accepted to buy the plane and included a small (refundable) deposit in the purchase agreement that had to be paid before the prebuy.
Prebuy - AOPA has a suggested checklist here which may be a little light and Savvy has a few listed on their site which may be too heavy...would be interested to see what some of the A&Ps on this forum think the "right" level of depth is. If you are worried about a mechanic going too far, you could always ask the buyer agree on a scope in the purchase agreement. Anything extra would need to be approved before the work is performed.
I personally can't imagine buying without getting behind the controls at least once, but don't think I would throw the keys to just anyone and let them fly solo, especially given my insurance's requirements for the open pilot warranty are pretty high. I would likely insist that I (or someone I trust) be in the plane for the test flight.
For escrow, at my attorneys recommendation we used Insured Aircraft Title Service out of Oklahoma City. I thought it was really convenient - they handled setting up the escrow account, funds transfer, did a title search for me in advance of the sale, and then walked the registration papers over to the FAA and got them filed same day at the end of the transaction. The price was reasonable (maybe $600 or so a few years ago, seller and I split the cost) and their customer service was great.
There is always the option of hiring a broker to handle all this for you too. I had a fantastic experience just buying directly from a seller but YMMV depending on who your buyer is and how much patience you have - some people are just a pain in the a** to deal with! 😁

Good luck!

Matt

Digitalpilotnm · April 2023

Thoughts from a recent buyer ;). (I've purchased and currently own two planes)

For all of my pre-buy process, I've hired Savvy Aviation to help sort out the A&P / IA and a list of stuff to check. I also have used Christina Hancock at Aero-Space Reports to pull the title package, faa documents, and handle escrow. Both well worth the $$$$

There will always be some negotiation. Be realistic about what you are selling. Be honest about what is "broke / wrong" with the plane.

Have your last 10 to 15 years of records in a digital format, CLEAR, READABLE PDF scan's are great. Put the time into have those available so you can just click/drag to email. If you have a JPI or similar, have that data available as well....

Sellers should keep in mind that the current insurance market is making it HARDER / IMPOSSIBLE / MORE EXPENSIVE to insure older airplanes. While you might be paying $1800 a year, that same airplane may cost the new owner $2800 a year or more. Some insurance companies are now refusing to insure aircraft older than XX.... Trying to get hull coverage for an amount much higher than current valuations is also difficult.

If your engine(s) are close to TBO, that could be a big reduction in $$$. Quoted last week. Factory New TCM TSIO-360 is $79K and 3 to 4 months lead time. Overhauled by a third-party shop is 9 to 12 months from now, if they can get cylinders. And a Lycom. New TIO-540 is at $105K at projected 2025 delivery date.

Unit74 · April 2023

My current quote on $190k hull, six place, PSEL INST standard limits is $3300 FWIW. Just got the brokers email this week.

when I bought the plane 9 years ago it was $1800.

greygoose · May 2023

Good advice from others, but have to add in recommendation for escrow. I second a good experience with Christina Hancock at Aero-Space Reports for excellent management of escrow.

Ben

Unit74 · May 2023

https://piperowner.org/talk/discussion/comment/1442471#Comment_1442471

Aerospace did my last two purchases. I also recommend.

empannin · May 2023

Although not required I think an escrow + title search is a good investment. This is especially true if the prior owner has financed and/or you are financing.

I would not let a buyer fly left seat or pilot in command nor would I want to as a prospective buyer. Mostly an insurance/liability question. As non pilot in command you can watch everything without the burden of also piloting.

A caution.... pilot's selling planes are often rusty in their flying skills. Discuss cockpit resource management prior to engine start. You will likely be passing the controls back and forth a number of times - make sure there is no question who is flying. If something is not right insist on terminating the flight and returning to base.

Another challenge is the owner may no longer be flying and the broker may have a named pilot for demo purposes. Before hopping in, I would ask the following of any pilot:

1) When is the last time you have flown this aircraft (if ever) and how many hours?

2) How many hours in type and currency?

3) What are the v-speeds for this aircraft?

4) What are the power settings for take off, climb, cruise and downwind, base, final, over the fence, etc?

Getting some time in the make/model or similar from a plane not for sale is highly recommended. Could help narrow your selection down and will give you an excellent comparison point.

Scott Sherer · May 2023

Hi Eric! I'm looking forward to seeing you at Airventure. Are you coming to our dinner??

empannin · May 2023

Hi Scott! Not sure on my travel plans yet. I may be overseas for the first part of the week. My Seneca III is flying great but I will likely fly commercial due to timing.

Scott Sherer · May 2023

OK, Eric. Thanks for the update!

Selling an airplane

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