New Aztec Owner / former Saratoga Owner
Just joined the POS today (that has a nice ring huh?) lol
I owned a 1980 fixed gear Saratoga for almost 10 years. Poured lots of love into it and it was a joy to fly all over the place. Lot of avionics upgrades and was a great IFR flying machine. Unfortunately lost the plane in an engine out crash this past April. Very fortunate that myself and my passenger walked away without injury but the plane was totaled after shedding it's wings when we met the end of the small cow pasture that I found within the Mark Twain National Forest. Thank goodness this just happened to be a VMC day.
Anyways, after a brief period of consideration for no longer flying, I decided I wasn't done and went shopping for a twin. A few weeks back I purchased N6030Y a 69D model Aztec and I'm loving flying it. Still working on the MEL but almost there.
Anxious to get the MEL rating and MEI (plan to do both on the same ride) and then just get back to flying.
Right now working on installing new shoulder harnesses from Alpha aviation (supposed to be delivered tomorrow) and am already thinking about the big avionics upgrades I will want. Right now the panel is very IFR capable with King HSI and dual 430W and a fully functional STEC 60-2. I just go really spoiled in the Saratoga with dual G5's, IFD550, and GFC500 AP. Right now thinking I may "go big or go home" and do a full glass panel with Garmin EIS and leave the STEC... but plan for the GFC600 when it becomes available. I might wait to do the whole panel for when the GFC 600 is approved. That decision will be determined by the shop's recommendation regarding the hassle of coming back in a second time. Sometimes if future upgrades are expected they can be planned for during the first "surgery" and the going back in can be less painful.
Anyhow, wanted to introduce myself.
Comments
Dogdoc;
Welcome to the group!
Sorry to hear about your Saratoga,, but glad you and your passenger survived.
Post pics of your bird when you get a chance! Welcome again!
Jim "Doc Griff" Griffin
PA28 - 161
Chicago area
as requested here are a few pics of the new Aztec
And for fun my last pics of the Saratoga:
Thanks for the pics. Always wanted a twin, but leery of going broke twice as fast!
Ben
Had the same exact thoughts until my Saratoga IO-540 tried to kill me. I’m by no means anti SE at this point. However, I have the means to fly a twin so I’m gonna do it.
Beautiful Aztec and welcome to the group. What was the problem with the 540, I too drive a TIO-540-S1AD with inquiring mind. Just wondering, were you able to secure the avionics from the Toga...
Wow! Those pictures of the crash site gave me the chills…
I have a Seneca II and trained for my multi rating in it. It was a ton of fun. Of course every checkride is stressful but you are already more than capable…just adds a few more tasks.
Great looking Aztec!
craig
It was not a Turbo. I’ll post the link the prelim which is really all I have to go by for now. Engine had 2300 hours on it but was making great power and monitored very closely. The preliminary report suggests the #3 cylinder was likely the first domino to fall in the catastrophic failure. Ironically that cylinder was OH in 2021 a couple weeks prior to my first time to fly into OSH (making it the most recently worked on part of the engine). Covid shortages meant no available cylinders at the time so OH was my only option to keep flying.
I was not able to get the avionics from the Saratoga. Being a total loss the insurance company became the owner shortly after the accident. I was told I could reach out to the salvage company to buy it back but I opted against it. I loved that plane very much and had poured a lot of time and $ into making it a really nice bird. I was adequately insured to cover what I had in it was but under insured relative to the big spike in the market values.
Nice ride and hauler dog, good luck on the ratings!
Carl
48 yrs A/P IA DAL aircraft inspector. 172N
dogdoc,
Interesting about #3 cylinder. Returning from OSH this year my #3 was acting up, EGTs fluctuating and when adjusting MP to approach speeds the engine was running rough with #3 EGT and CHT dropping off the chart. Approach was fast to keep engine running smoothly. We investigated and found #3 with excessive oil in cylinder and exhaust valve carbonized...We're sending the cylinder for overhaul.
I feel the same way about my Lance II. Hope you're able to feel the same way about your Aztec.
Roe
Welcome to Piper Owners! Enjoy the training experience and hopefully, with time, you will develop the same affection for your Aztec!
Regards,
Mike
Welcome!
I would recommend focusing on your Multiengine rating and then flying it for at least 50 hrs beyond before committing to a big panel upgrade. Mostly because what you want in a panel might evolve but also panel upgrades suck up tons of time. Would suck to get you MEL and then be unable to use it for 6 months while waiting for the plane to come back.
Eric Panning
1981 Seneca III
Hillsboro, OR (KHIO)
I left the PA32 for a twin (Seneca in my case) for similar reasons- although was fortunate enough for it not to be my plane, but close enough that it made the decision easy. Like you, I can afford the extra cost of the twin and have enjoyed it so far. I agree with others, fly it for 25-50h then decide what avionics. But I would stress maybe to build around what Autopilot you currently or eventually want to have (if you intend to upgrade) as that can be limiting for what other panel goodies will work with it.
Just a quick update. I have about 25 hours in the Aztec now and am really loving it. The last few weeks I have been spending lots of time installing soundex insulation throughout and replacing headliner, carpet, kick panels, plastic repair / painting, etc.
next week going to avionics shop for phase 1 of upgrades. Dual GI275’s for primary (retaining the rest of the 6 pack around them) but ditching the vacuum. Replacing one 430W with a 750xi. Replacing the pair of transponders with a GTX345. Moving the audio panel over above the 6 pack (in place of the DME) which will make room for the 750. Keeping the Avidyne MFD to display radar weather and TCAS (both already in place) keeping 2nd 430W as #2 nav/com.
On top of these new components we’ll be installing a couple S-Tec items. St-360 (bought used) to provide alt pre-select and ST-670 (behind the panel box) to provide flight director to the Stec 60-2.
I know those additions won’t turn it into a GFC600 but if it improves the AP efficiency to my liking it could really extend the time until I desire/want the GFC600 upgrade at some time in the future.
These upgrade choices were made while keeping that potential GFC600 in mind.
And yes I could have postponed avionics upgrades longer but I just wasn’t happy with the efficiency of the IFR panel in its current state. Maybe I was spoiled with my Saratoga panel but a more modern Navigator and glass instruments with gpss certainly decreased the workload. While the 430W does the job I just despise dialing in letters after getting accustomed to typing.
Thanks for the information on the failure on your toga out of curiosity what's your new take on Tbo busting at this point. A quick read of your accident report indicates you may have had a spun bearing that perhaps precipitated all the failures. Carl just curious
48 yrs A/P IA DAL aircraft inspector. 172N
Given the prelim points towards the #3 cylinder as possibly being the first domino to fall actually would have nothing to do with a TBO issue. That cylinder was OH a few years ago. During covid when no new cylinders were available.
I’ll refrain from forming any more opinion until the final is published. I’ve always subscribed to Mike Bush’ philosophy. The data supports running on condition rather than simple time / hours. Not a black and white issue for sure.
Yeah will be interested to see what the final report shows , my immediate group tends to not follow Mike Bush. Thks. Carl
48 yrs A/P IA DAL aircraft inspector. 172N
You'll love the Aztec! I've been flying my '67 C model for 12 years and have put over 2300 hours on it. Did a major upgrade 2 years ago with a number of airframe mods from Diamondaire, Scimitar props and a new Garmin panel, including the EIS. Kept my STEC 55X and it has integrated and performed well. I'm attaching pics of panel/airframe and am happy to answer any questions :)
Very nice other than the throttle quadrant you never know it's a 67. Lol Carl
48 yrs A/P IA DAL aircraft inspector. 172N