Unit74 beat me to it, and I agree with him. Your hours in the military *should* count for something in civilian aviation. Have a deep discussion with your agent. Your instrument and commercial ratings should cross over, although you may need to take an exam or 2. You *may* get some credit toward multi engine, but remember those hours apply to rotorcraft, so while it won't hurt you, it may not help either.
Two big issues come to mind; you're probably being quoted high rates because of low time in type, and although you have 1,600 hrs, it's all in rotorcraft, and you're now pursuing fixed wing.
When you talk with your agent, ask what milestones need to be hit to begin lowering your rates. Either way, I'd also request a quote from a different carrier just so you can compare rates.
If you can find a local flying club, it might make sense to join if they have a good fleet. You can typically train in the club including moving up in complexity and this would be more affordable vs serially buying planes of greater complexity.
The right club is a fantastic experience - you can always elect to buy a plane too and when you do you will have all the recent hours including complex time, etc. For some clubs, they might be looking for more planes to put on the line and this might work for you too.
I would not be surprised if someone would object to cost sharing with you. For me, I fly alone almost all the time; 3-5 seats empty depending on what I’m flying and rarely have a butt in it. I’d enjoy the company, and the cost savings.
I own and fly a 79 PA32RT-300T. Previous aircraft are a 79 Archer and 76 Arrow.
@Unit74 thanks for even more insight man. Like I said earlier, that was just the first place I tried- being in the Army and having done business with USAA for years, I just tried them first and it was whatever broker they use. I'm sure I'll be able to find someone at least a LITTLE cheaper once I get the chance to shop around, I'm just crazy busy day-to-day down here so I haven't been able to make the time. But damn, if I could find insurance on a lance for under $3k, I'd be SOLD. As soon as I post this, I'm gonna do the online quote from Wings, and hopefully I'll get lucky and they'll call me this week at a point when I have a chance to grab my phone and walk out the door haha
I'm in upstate NY. Not a huge aviation area of the US- pretty low income throughout the whole state, so the people and schools with planes are few and far between, and anyone you can find has, at best, a C172 or like a Cherokee 180.
@griff390 yeah, that's what I'm thinking now. An instrument rating is great, but probably doesn't mean much to the insurance company if I haven't demonstrated that when ATC tells me to descend and maintain 5000 then hold at X intersection, I not only understand what they're telling me, but can actually make that happen with a yolk and throttle instead of a cyclic and collective haha
@empannin that's honestly my biggest frustration right now. I'd love to be able to get in with a club and just build time until I could at least buy "my" plane with a reduced insurance premium, but there's literally nothing within 4 hours of me short of the school where I got my PPL in a 172. I'm in this frustrating limbo where basically the only way for me to get an HP rating is for me to move, take an EXPENSIVE ass vacation for a few weeks, or just buy the plane I want, fly it with a CFI for a few hours and suck up the high cost for a while.
Jason Blair brought my plane to me when I bought it and upon arrival that morning, we spend all day flying it for transition training. He endorsed me for HP/Complex and ran me through the ringer to ensure I understood the plane. He charged me a daily rate, not hourly and I paid for his plane ticket home. It was a very smooth and enjoyable event.
Last year I was shopping for either a FG Cherokee Six or a retractable Lance. I was just about to hit the big age 7-0, so I asked my insurance broker to price out the difference in premiums between a FG Six and a retractable Lance of equal vintage and hull value. I have 4500 hours total, 1000 retractable (of which 150 were in a PA-32R-301), IR and CFI-I. The 1978-79 Six 300 is identical to a low-tail Lance, except for the landing gear (and fuel tank arrangement in the '78 Six), so it would be a real apples-to-apples comparison.
Premium for the retractable was just about double that for the fixed-gear. Some companies wouldn't even quote me in the retractable. (I guess since geezers like me can't be trusted to turn off the left-turn blinker on the freeway, we'll forget the gear too.) So I bought a 1978 fixed-gear Six.
My Six cruises at 145 KTAS at 14 gph, giving up about 10 knots to a normally-aspirated Lance at the same power setting. I think it's a reasonable trade-off for the lower insurance and maintenance costs compared to the retractable.
My Turbo Lance cruises with identical speeds and fuel flows LOP. Its where I generally run most of the time. But, when I need to, I can really run that engine and see 165kts TAS and pay for it at the pump.
When I get my Lance back with the new intercooler kit on it, I expect at least another 12 knots at the same fuel flows.
I own and fly a 79 PA32RT-300T. Previous aircraft are a 79 Archer and 76 Arrow.
Hi, I'm very curious. Why would your airplane fly 12 kts faster at the same fuel flow? Your CHT's will be cooler but the energy produced will be the same, won't it?
Scott Sherer
Wright Brothers Master Pilot, FAA Commercial Pilot
Aviation Director, Piper Owner Society Forum Moderator and Pipers Author.
Comments
Two big issues come to mind; you're probably being quoted high rates because of low time in type, and although you have 1,600 hrs, it's all in rotorcraft, and you're now pursuing fixed wing.
When you talk with your agent, ask what milestones need to be hit to begin lowering your rates. Either way, I'd also request a quote from a different carrier just so you can compare rates.
Jim "Doc Griff" Griffin
PA28 - 161
Chicago area
If you can find a local flying club, it might make sense to join if they have a good fleet. You can typically train in the club including moving up in complexity and this would be more affordable vs serially buying planes of greater complexity.
The right club is a fantastic experience - you can always elect to buy a plane too and when you do you will have all the recent hours including complex time, etc. For some clubs, they might be looking for more planes to put on the line and this might work for you too.
Eric Panning
1981 Seneca III
Hillsboro, OR (KHIO)
Where are you at?
I would not be surprised if someone would object to cost sharing with you. For me, I fly alone almost all the time; 3-5 seats empty depending on what I’m flying and rarely have a butt in it. I’d enjoy the company, and the cost savings.
I own and fly a 79 PA32RT-300T. Previous aircraft are a 79 Archer and 76 Arrow.
@Unit74 thanks for even more insight man. Like I said earlier, that was just the first place I tried- being in the Army and having done business with USAA for years, I just tried them first and it was whatever broker they use. I'm sure I'll be able to find someone at least a LITTLE cheaper once I get the chance to shop around, I'm just crazy busy day-to-day down here so I haven't been able to make the time. But damn, if I could find insurance on a lance for under $3k, I'd be SOLD. As soon as I post this, I'm gonna do the online quote from Wings, and hopefully I'll get lucky and they'll call me this week at a point when I have a chance to grab my phone and walk out the door haha
I'm in upstate NY. Not a huge aviation area of the US- pretty low income throughout the whole state, so the people and schools with planes are few and far between, and anyone you can find has, at best, a C172 or like a Cherokee 180.
@griff390 yeah, that's what I'm thinking now. An instrument rating is great, but probably doesn't mean much to the insurance company if I haven't demonstrated that when ATC tells me to descend and maintain 5000 then hold at X intersection, I not only understand what they're telling me, but can actually make that happen with a yolk and throttle instead of a cyclic and collective haha
@empannin that's honestly my biggest frustration right now. I'd love to be able to get in with a club and just build time until I could at least buy "my" plane with a reduced insurance premium, but there's literally nothing within 4 hours of me short of the school where I got my PPL in a 172. I'm in this frustrating limbo where basically the only way for me to get an HP rating is for me to move, take an EXPENSIVE ass vacation for a few weeks, or just buy the plane I want, fly it with a CFI for a few hours and suck up the high cost for a while.
Jason Blair brought my plane to me when I bought it and upon arrival that morning, we spend all day flying it for transition training. He endorsed me for HP/Complex and ran me through the ringer to ensure I understood the plane. He charged me a daily rate, not hourly and I paid for his plane ticket home. It was a very smooth and enjoyable event.
I was really pleased with how it worked. He is a PA32 expert. https://jasonblair.net/
I own and fly a 79 PA32RT-300T. Previous aircraft are a 79 Archer and 76 Arrow.
Last year I was shopping for either a FG Cherokee Six or a retractable Lance. I was just about to hit the big age 7-0, so I asked my insurance broker to price out the difference in premiums between a FG Six and a retractable Lance of equal vintage and hull value. I have 4500 hours total, 1000 retractable (of which 150 were in a PA-32R-301), IR and CFI-I. The 1978-79 Six 300 is identical to a low-tail Lance, except for the landing gear (and fuel tank arrangement in the '78 Six), so it would be a real apples-to-apples comparison.
Premium for the retractable was just about double that for the fixed-gear. Some companies wouldn't even quote me in the retractable. (I guess since geezers like me can't be trusted to turn off the left-turn blinker on the freeway, we'll forget the gear too.) So I bought a 1978 fixed-gear Six.
My Six cruises at 145 KTAS at 14 gph, giving up about 10 knots to a normally-aspirated Lance at the same power setting. I think it's a reasonable trade-off for the lower insurance and maintenance costs compared to the retractable.
My Turbo Lance cruises with identical speeds and fuel flows LOP. Its where I generally run most of the time. But, when I need to, I can really run that engine and see 165kts TAS and pay for it at the pump.
When I get my Lance back with the new intercooler kit on it, I expect at least another 12 knots at the same fuel flows.
I own and fly a 79 PA32RT-300T. Previous aircraft are a 79 Archer and 76 Arrow.
Hi, I'm very curious. Why would your airplane fly 12 kts faster at the same fuel flow? Your CHT's will be cooler but the energy produced will be the same, won't it?
Scott Sherer
Wright Brothers Master Pilot, FAA Commercial Pilot
Aviation Director, Piper Owner Society Forum Moderator and Pipers Author.
Need help? Let me know!
The TurboPlus intercooler employs a new lower cowl, removing the fish bowl mouth.
I own and fly a 79 PA32RT-300T. Previous aircraft are a 79 Archer and 76 Arrow.
Sorta oranges and tangerines, but here is a write up on the Lopresti version of the cowl.
https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/1997/may/pilot/gentlemen-start-your-engines
I own and fly a 79 PA32RT-300T. Previous aircraft are a 79 Archer and 76 Arrow.
Good read, thanks for posting!
Scott Sherer
Wright Brothers Master Pilot, FAA Commercial Pilot
Aviation Director, Piper Owner Society Forum Moderator and Pipers Author.
Need help? Let me know!